All at once?

ok gals, input welcome! at 17w adjusted it's almost time for serious, committed, set-a-date-and-go sleep training! first i have to get through grading oodles of final exams, but then it's time. i'm thinking around 20w adjusted? so, here's my question:
 
did you sleep train and swaddle wean all at once? or in stages? how long did it take? what did you experience?
 
my boys are swaddled in woombies (no arms released), gaining well, and can do 7-8 hours between feeds at night. we do a late night (midnight) feed and then start our day with a feed around 7am. i have one paci-junkie so we have several wee hours wakings for a re-paci, crib-to-swing of N (paci junkie) and at least 1 wee hour settling of C (who gets woken up by N but goes back down in crib ok). since they are not eating in the wee hours (and have not for several weeks) i know they can STTN. i'm Bfing and they have 5-6 feeds/day.
 
so, do we release 1 arm and start wtih CIO (probably would lean towards total extinction given the paci situation)?
release arm for a week,  still re-paci, then proceed with both arms out?
or do this all at once?
other?
 
with my singletons, i'm kinda hazy on the details LOL, but my DS was quite a bit older (8mo) and out of the swaddle by the time we did complete CIO, which took all of 2 nights (yes!) but he was a tummy sleeper and thumb sucker, so he would just roll over, insert thumb and voila. for my DD, who was also a paci junkie, i think we released her arms but would still re paci, and then eventually did cold turkey CIO and no re-pacis. we did this a lot sooner (5mo i think?) and in 2 stages--think she took a bit longer on one of the phases but i don't really remember
 
TIA!

 

I am also kind of hazy about these stages.
 
I am a believer in baby steps.. we made all changes slowly and never more than one thing at a time.  My priority was always sleep and I went as slow as necessary not to mess that up. (DS is unbearable when tired) We did CIO when i thought that not doing it was interfering with their sleep.  
My approach was to take the thing I thought would be the easiest and do that first.  we sleep trained well before we swaddle weaned.  I kept them in swaddles for a long time. (they were rolling over for quite sometime before we stopped and DS slept on his stomach in the swaddle.. (gasp))
 
I do remember that just when i thought i would loose my mind replacing binkies they learned to twist around and grab it with their mouths. (really very talented! big celebration in our house!)
 
To swaddle wean we did one arm, then the other, then both.  One was done in about a week the other took 2+ weeks, but i went every slowly and when i thought it was messing up their sleep we backed up a step (or swaddled for naps but not at night).  since they had been sleep trained for sometime we never had to do CIO for swaddle weaning.  I had been dreading it and I remember being amazed that it went as smoothly as it did.  They fussed about it but never lost it and eventually they just accepted it.

 

We experimented with sleep training during naps yesterday and concluded that we're personally not ready for it yet (the babies might be, but WE aren't!).  We decided to try to swaddle wean them first so that when we sleep train they can put their hands in their mouths for comfort or grab pacis.  Today we did one arm out for their first two naps, then had to put both in for the third nap.  We put them to bed tonight with both arms in.  I think once they can reliably do their naps okay with an arm out we'll try overnight with an arm out.  I also ordered two zipadeezips to try out!

 

If you are going to do CIO, I'd do it all at once. A couple days and done. Why drag it out? The goal is to quickly teach the babies how you want them to sleep. Seems confusing to get them STTN then start messing with them again in swaddle weaning. We didn't swaddle that long, but our sleep training coincided with breaking them of a swing habit, and we just did it all at once.

 

thanks for your input, especially on 2 different approaches
 
by the way, what's the rationale behind releasing one arm for a period of time, replacing, releasing the other arm, then both (1-1-2)? as opposed to releasing one arm, then the other (1-2). just curious...

 

yes (1-1-2) is what i did.
 
Ha, that approach comes from my horse training back ground. all animals (and people) learn things individually by side. (example, you can write/brush your teeth/flip pancakes with one hand but not very well with the other).  Yes, right or left handed plays a part in which hand you prefer and therefore practice with but still means that just because you know how to do it with one hand doesn't mean you can do it with the other without practice.
 
So releasing one hand at a time allows them to learn to keep their one arm close to them while the other is still snuggled next to their body.  Probably not necessary for all babies but for my LO who was the wrap addict it made a huge difference.  We never had a bad night doing it this way, only a couple of nights were the initial fall asleep time was slightly later.
 
Interesting horse note:  since horses' eyes are on opposite sides of their head, they see two images with an almost blind spot in front.  So the 'learn things individually by side' applies also to a horse's sight.  
If you have a young horse who is afraid of something. you work with him so that he is not afraid (keeping object on his right side).  When you turn around and approach this object and it is now on the left side he will behave as if he has never seen it.  You have to do the same confidence building exercises now that it is on the other side.

 

thanks amy! makes sense to me. i'm a fellow horse person too rode to the 5-6mo pg mark with my singletons. with my twins, not so much LOL
 
been having rough naps/bed times round these parts the past few days. i had to separate them today just to preserve some sleep. they're both exhausted. one napped well in a separate room, the other did not, and still they were both such a mess at bed time that they didn't go down smoothly. talk about 1 step forward, several steps back :headbang:  i just want to grab a quick nap and haven't been able to for the past 4 days. so, guess i'm a mess too!

 

You have received good advice, just wanted to say hang in there!!!

 

my kiddos still nap in separate rooms even though they are always together at night.  for us, their sleep needs are so different having together all the time was not possible.  this way DS can get the extra sleep he requires with extra nap time.
 
one of these days i am going to get back to riding!
 
hope you get a nap soon!  hang in there!

 

thanks for the support gals! nap #1, separated in progress. no intruders (yet)
 
and daisies...i've been on horse-hiatus for awhile now, wah! i try not to make eye contact with my saddle when i pass it in the garage LOL