Am I being to Harsh?

I posted probably about 7 months ago now about having problems with DH and Porn.. Now I KNOW some of you don't think Porn is an issue - I'm not here right now to debate that. The fact that it actually ended up coming between me and my husband's sex life is when it became a problem... So I'm here to ask if you think I'm being to harsh with the way I'm reacting to him.

He deployed about 2 weeks after I came here asking for help. A wonderful lady on here directed me to a site full of information and others going thru our issues. I can't post over there however becuase DH is also a member, and I don't want him to see me ask this question.

I had asked him to seek help while deployed, via a counselor or pastor. Pastor's he said were not available. I know they were but whatever. I found him a counselor. I called and verified that they were available. DH was to 'embarrassed' for his unit to know he was going to 'mental health' mind you no one would know WHY he was going, just that he was going. Aside from the Porn issue (addiction) he is also severly depressed, which is why I wanted him to see a counselor.

I asked him for HIS ideas on what he could work on to show me he was trying to get better. He had some (sending me cards, showing me drawings, sharing a book with me) none of which he actually followed thru with.

I've caught him in lies again and again, and I have hard proof that he was lying (Screen shots of websites, web history, e-mails, etc) and he INSISTS on lying even when faced with the hard truth.

I've sent him seperation papers. he signed and sent them back.

Here's where I get so confused and wonder if I'm just being to hard, or if I'm being to wishy-washy and need to stick to my guns about leaving.. He SAYS he loves me, he SAYS he cares, he SAYS he wants to work things out, but he doesn't DO ANYTHING to SHOW me that he's serious and, in fact does the exact opposite. I tell him I'm done communicating, that HE needs to initiate becuase thus far I've initiated ALL communication. But then before hanging up I tell him I WANT him to call, I WANT him to email, to Skype... He does NOTHING. What would that tell you??

I've told him to pack his bags and find another apartment when he comes home in a week. Am I being to harsh?? Should I give him a chance once he's home to rectify this, or should I just cut my losses??

As a bit of a backround, we've been married for 9 years, together 10. Porn came into our lives before we were married. At first I didn't have a problem with it, just wanted to be invovled. Over the years he started hiding it from me, despite my openness to try it and other new things in the bedroom. It came to the point I felt like I was competing for his attention and I was only dressing trashy to look like what he was fantasizing about. My self-esteem plummeted. I started asking him to stop, explained how it made me feel. Just resulted in more lying and more hiding. Me 'catching' him.. I threatened to divorce him when our girls were just 4 months old and I 'caught' him again. didn't leave. Repeat this scenario every 6-7 months... He actually physically sexually assaulted me twice. I didn't say anything becuase I KNEW his military career would come to a screeching halt, and his life essentially derailed. I was more concerned for him than myself. He 'thought' he was coming onto me, I was dead asleep and he stuck his finger somewhere it did NOT belong while your spouse is knocked out snoring next to you....

Even after all that, I still love him. I don't know WHY. I couldn't tell you why right now, but I do. I feel like we were meant to be together. When we're good, we're GOOD together. We play as a team with parenting, he's a very good father... He just happens to have a very nasty (in my mind, it's worse than crack or heroin) addiction.

But I feel like he's just NOT TRYING to even begin to make things right with us. ?? What would you do? SHould I try to work it out just for the kids? I dunno.... I need some womanly advice w/o him being able to see my open wound (why I won't post to the other site)

Thank you for reading this far ladies, I know I can come here to get some good advice..

-Raichael

 

I don't have a ton of time to reply, but wanted to say this: it doesn't matter what the issue is (porn, drinking, lying, whatever), you have asked your husband to make a change and he hasn't. The fact that the cycle repeats itself every 6 months means that your husband realizes he doesn't have to change his behavior. If he ignores your complaints long enough, things go back to normal. You've also asked him to show you that he cares. And he hasn't. If you're serious about separation (and not just using it as a tactic to hopefully scare him into being nice/good again), then follow through. See if the distance from you and your children will wake him up and make him realize that his marriage and his family are on the line. A person can SAY anything, but what matters is what they DO.

 

Nobody can tell you what to do, you have to make that decision for yourself. I will, however, tell you that pornography does nothing good for a relationship. If he is not willing to get help and get rid of it, he is making your decision easy. I'm so sorry he has acted so stupidly, it truly is an addiction. My SIL is now divorcing her hubby because of that root problem, 14 years later. They have two kids together, and it has done nothing but screw up the kids (all of the crap the two parents have done to each other, a combo of porn addiction, control issues, insecurity, etc.) Your kids are young enough that they will not remember the bad relationship like my niece and nephew do...

 

I agree with Tricia 100%!!!! Good luck, I am so sorry.

 

I could go on and on but the bottom line is your husband, at least at this point, seems to in no way care about what you feel, say or otherwise. Do you really think "for the kids" is a good enough reason to be humiliated, embarrassed and in your own words "physically sexually assaulted" you more than once. THAT right there is a deal-breaker. There is a level of trust that has to be present in a marriage in order for it to work. Even if it waivers through difficulty, there should still be a thread there. It seems to me that there is NO trust here. How can you rely on that. I would have to see evidence of counseling and change, but distance sounds important at this point.

 

This sentence should have been when you left him. At that point it was no longer about pornography but about power and you were no longer his partner, but his property. Good luck, I hope you stay strong in your convictions.

 

I agree with Bex. I'm not anti-pornography by any means, and I have a hard time believing when women say their husband has a porn addiction vs. just a woman who doesn't like porn. But this raises huge red flags even for me. He sexually assaulted you. Twice. He needs help and you need to get out. You've already separated. Be done.

 

The sexual assault would have absolutely been the end of the line for me. Period. A pornography addiction is one thing, but when it turns into sexual assault, enough is enough. I don't say this lightly because I am person who thinks divorce is overused these days - you have tried to get him help, and he won't do it, and he has sexually assaulted you. It's time to get out.

 

I agree with both Bex and Tricia. The sexual assault is where I would have drawn the line as well. Just from what you have written today and previously, it sounds like you have done all you can do to save your marriage right now. Unless he admits that he has a problem and seeks help for it, nothing is going to change. With any addiction, sometimes the addict has to hit rock bottom before they can claw their way out of it. Maybe once he sees that this is costing him his marriage and family, he will seek the help he needs.

 

Youve tired to do all you can. I was threatened with sexual assault before I left my xh and that was my breaking point. It's not healthy for the kids to be in that situation. The whole saying I momma ain't happy no one is very true. A bad home situation is not better than a happy separated situation. My xh ended up with a less than honorable discharge due to his shooting me with a bb gun on a military base

 

Wow, what a mess. Raichael, I'm so sorry you are having to deal with this. :grouphug: I really think both of you need to go to counseling, not necessarily for any kind of reconciliation, and not necessarily together, but because there are many issues you both need to deal with. Ultimately, it's up to you to decide what to do, and maybe some counseling could help. In the meanwhile, I think you probably do need to separate, and try to keep your word on that. They always say an addict needs to reach their bottom before they are really motivated to get better, and separating could help with that. It definitely sounds like he has a sexual addiction problem, and honestly it's not just about the porn; it's about his general lack of boundaries when it comes to his sexuality--touching you without permission is a case in point, and I wouldn't be surprised if he has acted out in other ways that you don't know about or haven't mentioned.

In the meantime, you need to focus on getting yourself better. I'm sure this whole thing is dragging you down and you deserve better.

 

We were typing at the same time. ITA!

 

TabbiSue, I'm so impressed with you. I had no idea that you had endured that kind of domestic violence. Good for you, for getting out; you probably saved your life.

 

I do think there has been some other acting out, he just hasn't admitted to it. I've found substantial proof on his email that there has been involvement with racy(Sp?) websites and possible meeting of women outside of the home.. But again, no solid proof just some emails with profiles to different websites and he refuses to admit to anything.

I have been going to counseling. I'm away from home right now (we're both military) but when I get back I'm going to seek a different counselor. In part becuase I wasn't getting anywhere. She was a lovely lady, but I felt like I went in and just kept saying the same thing. She didn't try to pry into our early relationship, and when I would try to start telling her stuff, she just looked at me like I was crazy.

I think that's part of why I didn't say anything about the sexual assault. 1) I really didn't realize at the time that it WAS sexual assault, until later when I was going through some sexual assault awareness training, and 2) I'm also active duty military. I would have been black balled to no end if I had said something as he worked for the Wing Commander.. My career would have ended right along with his, but in a more drawn out process. Guilt by jury is almost better than guilt by peers.

Even as I wrote that, I knew that it sounded like a typical 'abusive relationship' situation.. Even if ours is more emotional.. Me defending him, saying I still love him (???) and then the big whammy of trying to stay together for the kids.

I think I'm just scared to death of the unknowns of being a single mother, and being single period. I'm 32, we got married when we were 22 and together since 21.. Not that I'm worried about meeting someone else, that's the furthest from my mind but I'm just scared of being ALONE, and having to make it on my own. I CAN, financially... I just don't have the confidence I don't think.

I know I deserve better. I KNOW I do. I can't let my daughters grow up thinking it's OK for men to treat them like this, or my son to grow up thinking it's OK to treat women like this. I just need to grow some balls and do what I need to do to get out...

 

You don't have to defend yourself at all. 96% of sexual assaults are never reported, especially when they victim knows the abuser. This is one of the only crimes where "guilt" is associated with the victim rather than the perpetrator. Any one of us can sit back and say, what we would do, but until we find ourselves in that position, it is very difficult to know how we would behave.

You know you can love someone, but it doesn't mean you have to be with them. It doesn't mean they are an unblemished. It takes much more than romantic love to hold a relationship together. You have to have trust, mutual respect, and a bunch of other qualities to build on to that love. Then again, maybe it's not really love; maybe it's just the fact that it has become normal for you to put up with this, and the fear of the unknown is scarier than the fears that you have face day to day with his addiction (It really sounds like a sexual addiction.). My brother and I have had this conversation over and over again (he's totally afraid of being alone and stays in relationships because of it), and I think for him if he was alone then he would have to deal with all of his issues. You know when you're alone, it's so much easier for you to focus and make yourself a better person. You need that, and he probably needs that too. Right now your mind is all twisted because you're riding the wave of his addiction. You could probably have a clearer head with some space to yourself--it doesn't mean you need to stay with him or go, but that you would be in a better position to make a good decision when you have that space.

 

Often times one addiction leads to another. A friend's husband appeared to be an alcoholic and she was about to leave him for it when the truth came out... He was actually addicted to porn and had been sneaking around and then would feel guilty so he would drink. In my case the alcohol addiction of my ex was in addition to the porn and then it became physical. Don't wait until it gets to that point. It took me getting a fist through my face at my daughter's 10th birthday party to leave. If you have said you will separate, do so. It sounds like you have not only endured sexual abuse but also emotional. I agree with the PP... get some counseling so you are not alone in this and your feelings can be validated and you can get guidance and support and so you can be the best you and mommy that you can be.

 

I'm now in a great relationship with a guy who is fully willing to adopt my girls if we can get my xh to sign over rights. We are looking at getting married in the next year or so. It is so scary to move out of your comfort zone trust me I know. I do suggest therapy too. I didn't go and I think it would have helped. I have become OCD since the divorce and have some issues with anxiety as well which I think are a result of everything. I had to have plastic surgery to remove the bb, luckily it didn't do major damage

 

I think I'm probably the one that gave you the websites? I'm glad they have helped you; they did alot for me.

You have to realize you can't change him, no matter how much you want to or how much you love him. We really can't understand the control an addiction has over a life unless we've lived it, so it's hard to understand how he can be speaking one thing to you and doing something else.

I'm probably going to be the odd one out here, but that's ok because I've been through it. I'll say it's all worth it to not give up. It really is. I almost gave up a dozen times over a span of about 8 years. It was the hardest thing I've ever gone through. But now I can say it was worth it. I'm definitely not saying don't separate. It sounds as if there are some physical boundaries desperately needed and you have to take care of yourself. You have to insist on separation and insist on counseling. Him sharing how he will change things is worthless because he doesn't have the ability to do that on his own yet. But it also sounds like he just can't see his way clear, even though he may want to. I strongly, strongly suggest that you find a counselor that specializes in sexual addiction for yourself, or general addiction if you can't find one.

I want to encourage you to not give up. Give him time to deal with himself. Love him even though he doesn't deserve it, from a distance if you need to. Thank goodness we all don't only get what we deserve. You will never reach him through begging and pleading and guilt. He already knows every single thing he's doing to hurt you, even if it doesn't seem he's acting like it.

So sorry :hug:

 

Chris:
I think you were the one. Thank you again. TTF has done wonders for me, if not given me my own addiction.. Lol

I just had a heart to heart with another man today. A guy in my class I'm in absolutely ZERO invovlement... But he sort of eluded to the fact that him and his wife had had some issues a few years back so I asked - and we started talking. It was very much of a counselor/counslee role but it helped me gain a LOT of perspective that I hadn't realized before. Not only does DH need to change, but so do I. What you said about not reaching him thru begging/pleading and guilt is EXACTlY what this other guy told me too. I needed that so much. To hear from a guys perspective what I needed to do, how I needed to act and how I can 'fix' this.. I don't want to 'fix' him per say but you know what I mean, what can I do to help facilitate the change? And he helped me realize that there's hope for us. There's hope for us but only if we both make a change, not just him and not just me.

 

Where does that leave you with the sexual assault, though? Things may seem "normal" to you because you've lived with them so long, but this is not a normal relationship. These are not normal run of the mill marital problems that you work out by both partners making an effort. It's not like you just need to be a better wife and then you'll be able to meet him in the middle and everything will be ok. You're living with a rapist in the house, and you have a rapist raising your kids. I echo pps that keeping an abusive partner in the house "for the sake of the kids" does not do the kids any favors at all. Everyone I know whose parents did that wishes they'd just divorced instead.

:hug: Wishing you lots of strength and peace to get through this. :hug:

 

It took me a long time to realize that. And even longer to actually be able to leave it alone. And, at least for our family, I had to completely leave it alone. Pretended like I never even knew there was a problem anymore. It was so hard because I would think "He's gonna think this is ok with me now if I don't remind him how much I hurt." But that's really not true.

I have a couple of books I can recommend too, if you want. I might even have extra copies. The are Christian based, but if that doesn't bother you they were very helpful to me. PM me if you ever want to talk. I think one of the reasons this is so devastating is because neither spouse can talk about it really. It's easier to be addicted to drugs or alcohol than porn in our culture (perception-wise). People either respond by being completely disgusted or they think it's dumb and not an addiction at all. And when moldy, nasty things stay in the dark they fester and grow.