Car seat

My twins are my third and fourth child and it is amazing how they constantly change advice. I now understand how grandmas get themselves in trouble with their advice. I did a lot of the same for my twins as I did for my now 6 and 8 year old.

The one thing I have done different is car seats. My older two were in a low back booster with just a seat belt at the age of three. Now, I believe they want a high back booster with a five point harness until the age of four.

However, my ds complains that it is tight around his legs and it is!! I am tempted to put him in the high back booster with a seat belt. Is this safe?

What do you use?

 

I use a high back booster for my 4 yr old, and have since she was just past three. She's a very tall child, and the seatbelt fits her fine. I know lots of people who still use 5 pt harnesses, and since we have the graco nautilus's for the twins we'll likely keep them in the harness longer too.

But, at the time, the babies were newborns and I needed my oldest ds to be able to buckle my older dd into the backrow of our Yukon XL, so we decided to get the highback graco turbobooster for her. I don't regret my decision

 

4 years AND 40lbs are the *minimum* requirements in many states for a child to be in a booster seat. Keeping a child in a 5pt harness until they are 5 or 6 is considered a much safer option as many times younger children do not safely sit in a booster seat (wiggle around, bend over to pick something up off of the floor, fall asleep and flop over, etc.). Many 5pt harnesses now go up to 50-65lbs. My 6.5 year old still fits comfortably and rides in his 5pt Harness (Britax Marathon).

At 3.5, they need to be in a 5pt harness.

There are a variety of options, in a variety of price ranges.

There is a great car seat safety website that has a forum just for asking advice on car seats - they can tell you what is out there and in what price range they fall in, I find it very helpful. It is:

http://www.car-seat.org/forumdisplay.php?f=2

Hope that helps!

 

I would call your local carseat specialist (usually a fire or police station, some hospitals even have them).

We kept our DDs in 5 point until age 4+ ---they were then too tall for our 5 point (head was getting close to the top and they were at the height limit-- but not weight).

We got a highbacked booster that was approved for 4 yrs old and over, 40 inches, and 30 lbs. We had to find one for less than 40 lbs since both DDs were just over 30 at age 4. We got a Graco Turbo booster and are thrilled with it.

We have had no trouble with them buckling in/out (we ALWAYS check it and make sure straps are flat) and they are comfortable for them. They are VERY good about long car rides, staying strapped in, and not goofing around.

Each state had different laws. 5 point harness and rear-facing as long as you can is ideal. Obviously, height/weight, state laws, and personal choice will dictate when you switch.

 

I agree with mama23boys, it's much much much safer to be in 5pt harnesses as long as possible. Most kids don't have the posture required for a regular belt until 5 or 6, meaning they will bend over/sideways if they fall asleep, making the seatbelt pretty much useless, and as a whole seats belts are not as dependable as 5pt harnesses.

This video of a crash test shows the difference between both. There's another very sad video out there about a kid that died because the seat belt didn't work, which is extremely rare, but isn't an issue with a 5pt booster obviously.

 

Mine were in the Graco Highback Turbo boosters since just before they turned 3. And they are still alive to tell about it. Both of mine met the recommendations on the packaging for the seats. From the Graco website, the recommendation for the high back booster is: For children 3-10 years old, from 30-100 lbs and 38”-57” tall

The 4 years and 40 lbs. is for the backless booster.

 

I wasn't in a car seat at all when I was a kid, and I'm still alive, but how many were not that lucky? Sorry this kind of argument really irritates me! What's so wrong about people wanting their kids as safe as possible that others have to use the 'we didn't do that but we're fine' line?

 

At 3.5 my twins were in a booster seat with a 5 point harness. We just switched them a week ago (they will be 5 next month) to the Graco Highback Turbo Booster with the seatbelt.

 

I believe it is for a booster seat with an adult seatbelt, I've never seen a law that specifies backless or high back. But that doesn't mean I'm right, I've just never seen it specified.

Here's a list of the laws by state:

http://www.ghsa.org/html/stateinfo/laws/childsafety_laws.html


Car accidents are the leading cause of death among toddlers and children, for me personally, if I can provide them with a seat that better protects them - I'm going to do it.

 

Ours aren't 3.5 yet, but I intend on 5 point harness for a long time. we're 32 months and I just got the Sunshine Radian XTSL that will rear face until 45 pounds... we are still rear facing and don't see switching them around any time soon, let alone putting them in a booster.

good luck figuring out what's right for your family, but the state laws are 'minimum' requirements... I live in FL and its one of the laxest ... we will be going by the manufacturer recommendations now that are to use the seats until the height and weight restrictions... and rear facing for(ever) a long time still.

 

p.s. they are also always making safety changes to the child seats... the infant seats when we had the babies back in 2008 didn't have hardly any of the models with Side Impact Protection, now many have the "extra" wings to help with head protection...

 

We have the Graco Nautilus 3 in 1 car seats in my car (primary vehicle) and Graco High Back Boosters in DH's truck. There is a 5 pt harness on the Nautilus you can use until 65 lbs. My kids had gotten too tall for their old convertible car seats, but wasn't ready to let go of the 5 pt harness. We really like ours.

 

We bought Graco Nautilus seats when our girls outgrew the Roundabouts because they can be harnessed up to 65 pounds and boostered up to 100 pounds. I will keep them harnessed for quite a while. And FWIW, my girls are taller and heavier than most twins their age.

The bolded part is one of many reasons I will keep them harnessed for much longer.

Not in Mass. As of 7/10/2008, it's now 5 years and 40 pounds. And they describe a booster (to be used from 5-7 years of age, until they reach 4'9" tall) as a seat that will hold both the shoulder and lap belts in proper position.

I work in a law firm that deals mainly with car accident cases. I will tell you that I have seen one too many cases where a child has been injured and it scares the you-know-what out of me so I have NO problem keeping them better protected for as long as I can. Yes, there are millions of children that have been seatbelted younger than my two and nothing has happened, but I personally want them protected as much as I can as long as I can.

 

agree with pp that RF and five point as long as possible is safest...

It makes carpooling and what not virtually impossible, but I'm fortunate that my husband is available so he can do most of the running around.

Becca can do her Graco 3 n 1 - we just double check it. Jake is still in his Marathon and shows no interest in learning how.

 

I have mine in a high back with a seatbelt, but probably didn't make the switch until they were right at 4. :tomato:

Good Luck!!

 

My son is almost 4.5 and he still uses his 5pt harness. But I will say that sometimes I do put him in a booster when I have my niece since she is 3.5 and to small for a booster. I have only recently been doing this for the past few months. I do plan on keeping him in his 5pt harness until he is 5 or older. He don't mind being in it and still fits. My girls if I am remembering correctly I switched them over to the high back boosters at around 3.5yrs old or a little older (I switched one before the other since she was bigger and met the requirements).

 

mine are in high back boosters - we converted our Nautiluses a few months ago and have the Turboboosters in my car...

because the argument and posting of the same video over and over again is very preachy (and it isn't only one person that posts this) and it makes us parents that don't succumb to the hype about our kids dying if they're not rear facing till their 18 look like we don't care about our kids safety...

honestly I worked in insurance for 10 years and took claims reports all the time...in 10 years the only accident that involved a devastating child injury was where the child was on a bike and rode out in front of the vehicle without looking...

 

Silly question, have you tried moving the between the legs buckle to a different position? Our seats have 3 positions and you can move it further away from the back of the seat as the kid gets bigger.

 

Mine are still in a convertable seat. In fact, weight wise they could still be in an infant seat. But they are growing taller, so I'll be looking for a booster with a 5 point harness soon. Or at least by their 4th birthday. But they may not make the weight minimum. It's hard with them. I'm just praying they start gaining normally, then I won't have the problem.

 

And on the same note...there is the other side of the coin sharing their stories about their children being in boosters for a while and being just fine. IMO, to each their own. I'm not going to judge if someone puts their kid in a booster earlier than the law states (as I've witnessed around here), but I personally am not going to do it. But, if someone starts a thread, I'm definitely going to share my opinion as to why I'm keeping them harnessed longer.

You're lucky. I've been at my current law firm 10 years and have seen more than one case where a child was ejected from a car or severely hurt because they were not belted properly. And these are just the cases that have made it to our office. It doesn't count the ones that never went into suit because they were settled. Again, not forcing my opinion on anyone, simply sharing it. Everyone needs to make their own decision based on what is best for their family. :good:

 

Hype? ... seriously? I didn't know that trying to make our children as safe as possible was a 'hype'.

Oh and have you actually looked at the video? It's just a crash test.

ETA:

Why is it perceived as SO wrong when someone tries to advise safety? Why do people always get so defensive? I haven't always followed the 'golden rule' when it comes to kids raising - my kids probably watch too much TV now, among other things. And they don't wash their hands nearly enough. But I'm not going to tell people that their kids should watch tv because 'my kids are fine'. If people have crabby kids, I'll recommend a healthier way of dealing with it, I won't tell people that they should plop their kids in front of the tv. And yeah I'll tell people that it's healthier to wash hands frequently, even if my kids are 'just fine' not doing it. The fact that I have my reasons (not always good) for doing what I do doesn't change the fact that some things are safer and healthier than others, and that we should always recommend that people go the healthiest/safest route first.

Just IMO.

 

I think this is the key Michele - the implication is that using a seatbelt with an approved booster isn't "belting them in properly"...I would venture a guess to say that those children ejected were not belted in at all - hence making a lawsuit frivolous as if you're not going to wear your seatbelt as an adult, belt your children in or wear a helmet on a motorcycle (PA has no helmet law) then I don't think a person should have the right to sue...but that's a whole different topic...

no the video is hype and yes I've watched it and given my opinion on it last year or so - you can search my screen name if you're interested...

what makes people defensive is the fact that the underlying implication is that of "your child will die and you are a bad parent" if you don't RF till 4, harness till 7, not make your own babyfood, not breastfeed etc etc etc...

my point is why when people ask a question about a carseat someone invariably has to dredge up that video to show the parents asking the question "this is what will happen to you"...

I truly believe that if your number is up (whether your 10 minutes or 110 years old) and its your time to go, you will go whether you're belted in a seatbelt, or sitting your couch watching TV...

and why does it piss you off so much when the argument comes out "well I did X with my kids and they turned out ok" - is it because they're right?

 

(I tore it apart to save room. )

Totally agree with you! We work on the defense side (for an insurance company) and it's shocking to me the things people sue over!!

I guess it's all in how you interpret it. I always looked at it as "hey, look how kids can slip so easily out of a seatbelt" sort of thing. I never looked at it that way before. I seriously never even questioned harnessing them after 5 (the law) until I saw the video. I do agree with you that when your time is up it's up, but I personally feel better knowing that they are tucked in a little tighter in the backseat should we get into an accident.

 

I don't.

No, because their experience is irrelevant. One person is just one person, out of billions. And they imply that their single experience and opinion is right, and that all the experts that have been doing research for years are wrong... which is pretty narrow-minded. Like I said, my parents never used car seats with us, and we're ok too! Except the kids that didn't turn out ok are not here to talk about it. People seem to forget that part. The sad thing is that if we didn't have car seat laws I'm sure a lot of kids wouldn't be restrained still.

See, I didn't breastfeed and didn't do my own babyfood (my kids didn't like it lol), but it doesn't hurt me to admit that breastfeeding is best, and homemade baby food is healthier (in most circumstances). I guess that's why I don't understand why people who switch car seats at the minimum age refuse to admit that it's not the safest thing to do... Like, I see a lot of 'we turned the seats because it was more convenient', but no 'we considered it, but the low risk of accident and injury for us wasn't worth the inconvenience'. Nobody's saying that kids will die if they are forward facing at 1, just that if you get in an accident, they are more likely to be seriously injured. As I said, accidents are rare, so I can see why some people don't really worry too much about it. And that's ok. But when I see them bashing others that are trying to show that *if* accidents happen, rear facing/5pt harnesses are safer, that's what I really don't get. People should be pushing for more safety, not bash people who are trying to do so.

 

no but their experience IS relevant - you see lobby groups (such as the IIHS) have been lobbying (aka paying off) legislators for years to get their own interest laws passed...which is why I don't put much faith in the circulating video...if you look at the video the forward facing car seat appears to be secured more loosely than the RF one as well as the speed in the RF one appears to be slower...

you can make a video and statistics look however you want...

 

See, that's what I'm talking about... people find all the faults they want in all those videos, when really it's just basic physics that you're safer rear-facing than forward facing, and safer in a 5pt harness than in a seat belt - I really don't understand how anyone can deny that. I wasn't that good at science and even I get it.

It's just that at some point, it's just too much of a pain to be rear facing and at some point it's too much of a pain to be in a 5pt harness.

 

My twins were moved to the Graco High Back turbo booster right around the time they turned 5. Meghan is only about 32 lbs now and will be 6 in a month. My Liam will be 4 in a couple of weeks and he is still riding in a convertible seat most of the time, but sometimes in the booster when the other two are not in the car. He weighs about 40-42 lbs. I am thinking he will probably be moving to the booster (when I find one on sale ) in the next few months.

 

and this is what I'm talking about...physics can be changed based on the parameters set forth...the action/reaction will be different at different speeds and whether or not the car seat in question is properly restrained in the car...I'm not that good at politics and I even get it...

 

My BIL is a doctor as well as his wife. Their son is 18 months old. I asked him about turning his son to front facing. He told me he did it right around a year, because he was way too scrunched up rear facing. In his words, the push to keep kids rear facing until age 4 "is a crock". And it may be better if they are in a front end collision. But if rear facing and in a rear end collision, they will be tossed around as well. We all do what we think is best for our children. Telling people that when they don't agree with you they are ignorant of the "facts" and don't care if their kids are hurt in an accident is over the top.

 

I know this is a hot topic and I'm treading lightly as I do believe we all have to make the decisions we feel are best for our children. However, I would rarely refer to my pediatrician for advice on car seat safety. Just as you would seek expert knowledge about ear infections from a pediatrician (or an ENT for recurrent ones), about significant behavioral concerns from a child psychologist/psychiatrist, sensory integration issues from an Occupational Therapist, and so on - doesn't it make sense to seek out car seat questions and/or advice from CPSTs? Wouldn't they be considered the "authority" on this topic? Or what about the AAP's stance on rear-facing? Does their opinion count? I certainly don't try to be preachy and I hope I don't come across as judging those who choose differently that I do when it comes to car seat safety - I am sure there are many that roll their eyes and laugh at the fact that my 6.5 year old is still in a 5pt harness and that my twins did not turn FFing until they were 35 months old - but there is some valid information out there regarding car seat safety that seems to get lost in all of the arguing and defensiveness that surrounds this topic.

Just a few points to explain my position:


"Statistics. According to Crashtest.Com, frontal and frontal offset crashes combine for about 72% of severe crashes. Side impacts are about 24%. Rear and rear offset crashes only account for about 4%. The NHTSA FARS database shows similar numbers. The odds of being in a frontal crash with a fatality or very serious injury are many times greater than being in a severe rear-end crash. Rear-enders are more common at lower speeds, though most injuries in these crashes are not as severe - typically, whiplash injuries to adults, especially passengers lacking proper head restraint." www.car-safety.org/rearface.html

And the AAP's position on extended-rearfacing :

"Children should face the rear of the vehicle until they are at least 1 year of age and weigh at least 20 lb to decrease the risk of cervical spine injury in the event of a crash. Infants who weigh 20 lb before 1 year of age should ride rear facing in a convertible seat or infant seat approved for higher weights until at least 1 year of age.3,4 If a car safety seat accommodates children rear facing to higher weights, for optimal protection, the child should remain rear facing until reaching the maximum weight for the car safety seat, as long as the top of the head is below the top of the seat back.3 " http://aappolicy.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/pediatrics;109/3/550/


Aren't these facts at least worth considering when making your decision?

 

And has to the whole we lived, we were fine...drs told people smoking was safe in the 60s. Also cars only had lap belts, back seats didn't even have seat belts (my dad added one to his Fiat). That doesn't mean it was the best choice.

As we learn more we have more options for safety. When my sister was born in 1982, I held her in the car - now you need to prove you have a carseat in your car before you leave the hospital. And car seats are safer now than 28 years ago when my sister was born.

Like Fran I don't understand why people get so defensive about this topic. I can't control bad drivers on the road - but I can do everything in my power to make sure my kids are as secure as possible while in the car. Yes, there will come a time when it will be ridiculous to have them in a 5 pt harness - but I would presume that will coincide with enough maturity to properly sit in a booster seat w/a seat belt.

And as for the 1 year and 20 pounds for FF, I had heard they were now recommending 2 years..but I don't know that its a law.

 

My oldest was in a Radian 65 until this summer (so 6 yo, she's 95% for height). I had one Marathon which was close to expiring, so my oldest is now in a high back booster, my twins are in the other Marathon and the Radian. They just turned 4 and my girl is 75% and my boy is 50% (so they're basically the same!). My other Marathon doesn't expire until the end of 2011 (2005 production date) so I'll get another booster over the summer for one, and the other one can stay in the Radian (and if they don't want, I'll get 2 boosters, and sell the Radian since they last 8 years). So they'll basically be harnassed until age 5. They don't seem to be bothered by it at all. My oldest was turned ff at 1 year old (she hit 20lbs at 7 months), with the twins I tried a little bit longer (18 months or so), although they were 20lbs before their first birthday as well.