Do you think college is necessary

I had to revisit this topic. The other night, I had a girlfriend from out of town visiting, and we went downtown for dinner. (Incidentally, she is one of my friends from college who I referred to earlier, age 48, never married. She is an attorney and a Presbyterian minister, and heads up this beautiful organization, Faith in Practice, in Houston.) Anyway, we stopped to read the historical markers on the square, including the monument to the suffragettes. It made me think of this topic.

"There is not the woman born who desires to eat the bread of dependence, no matter whether it be from the hand of father, husband, or brother; for any one who does so eat her bread places herself in the power of the person from whom she takes it." ~ Susan B Anthony

Women's Suffrage Statue
TN Woman's Suffrage Memorial

"The young women of today - free to study, to speak, to write, to choose their occupation - should remember that every inch of this freedom was bought for them at a great price... the debt that each generation owes to the past, it must pay to the future." ~ Abigail Scott Dunaway

It just seems wrong to take all that away from a young person.

 

Kim,
I will have to check out your friend's organization. It sounds very cool and right up my alley. I saw that you had reconnected with a good friend on FB but didn't know she lived in Houston.

I love the quotes- so true!!

 

Lindy, these medical mission trips are amazing. I know they could use you so if you need any more information, or anything, I'd be happy to get you in touch with her.

 

I was thinking about this thread today watching one of the get out of debt shows. The people of course had thousands in debt but the financial expert explained that the student debt was "good debt". It was the "don't pay til May" and 20% interest rate maxed out credit cards was "bad" debt. You get something important for your student debt, you get nothing permanent with your consumer debt.

 

Really depends. I think a lot of people are lucky in that they were given money by their parents or received grant or scholarship money to attend school. My parents did not go to college, nor did they have money to give to us kids for that. Everything has been paid for out of my own pocket. No one in my family has gone to college, except my aunt who only took a few classes. I will be the first person in my family to have a degree. And honestly, I didn't decide to go to school because I "needed" to. I didn't even enroll in school until I was 24. I did it because I am kinda a nerd and enjoy academic life.

I think if a person wants to have a specific career where a degree is required, it's important. A lot of degrees still only get you entry level work in certain fields that people can get jobs even without it though. I think there is a lot of stress on college nowadays and its more expected of people. But I guess because of my background I dont see it the same way. I'll be proud of my kids no matter what they choose. I would never force my child to go to college. Ultimately it is their life not mine. I don't think because someone chooses not to go to school that they are automatically some kind of deadbeat. LOL.

 

i completely understand what christel is saying and why she says it. Although I am of a different belief system our community also discourages college education. there are many opportunities for work in the community for women such as teachers or receptionists. why put yourself in a position to test your faith unneccesarily by leaving the area? both men and women are discouraged from going to college. A women's ideal role is in the home- it is not a degrading role, on the contrary we are taught that women bring spirituality and beauty into the family. there are many laws about how to properly treat your wife including "you must sell even the shirt off your back if your wife wants perfume." I understand that this is a strange concept if you're not in a community of hundreds/thousands who live as you do and everyday the streets are filled with women whose kids play together and who hang out together. The women, btw, always look fabulous with makeup and nice clothes and many have housekeepers too.
I like our community very much, it's fascinating how it takes care of itself and thrives financially and socially even though its so different than the norm of the US. BUT i am an anomaly(?) of sorts because I went away to college and then medical school... I do very well for myself and am not a sahm. my husband is the sahd and he has his md as well. AND i met my husband in college.
I wonder if part of my enjoyment and pride in my community is because I have other options. twinsitis feels trapped. i never thought about that viewpoint before and I understand it as well. basically i think its ok to discourage college as long as there is no threat of your children being too afraid of disobeying you to follow their dreams and much later regret it so much.

 

Well, if you went to college, it stands to reason that you'd feel less trapped.

 

Where can you be a teacher without a college degree?

Because those secure in their faith will be enriched by experiencing more and seeing more...and sharing with those around them of all faiths. Because only those so insecure in their faith need to hide behind it. If you are Christian, Fearless Faith is an interesting read.

 

I have not read all the pages of this thread, but enough to understand.

I was raised by two unskilled migrants who started studying once they were grown (and had 3 kids, went on to have 2 more during and after their studies), they worked as a cleaner and factory worker until they finished their degrees. We were not told but shown that having a degree was a good choice, one we would not regret. Still out of the 5 of us only 3 have college degrees, we knew we would have no parental help to get through college, so me and one of my brothers got scholarships and worked hard during all college years, my other brother stayed home and went to the local college (and worked to earn his keep at our own family home). One of my brothers started college but dropped out, he lives on social support right now; my sister never studied a degree, she is a musician and does well for herself.
I always knew that I would have their emotional support but not any financial support and I was lucky that they migrated to the UK where my college cost less than 1000 pounds a year and therefore fees were "easily" payable. Had they migrated to the US I don't think any of the 7 of us would have degrees today, the cost of education over there is just too high.
Most importantly they never pushed us in any direction, I met a gazillion children in medical school who were there because mummy and daddy wanted it, they were usually rather unhappy. My parents never were "prouder" of me than of my sister who either. As long as we are happy they support us. I have had problems with a lot of the things they do, but I think they did excellently here and hope I can convey this same feeling to my children.

By the way my mother has been a homemaker for almost 20 years (starting when she was fortysomething and only had worked in her college degree profession for a few years), it was more convenient for everyone. I am sure she does not think those college years were useless, especially not after having to make other homes for years as without a college degree as she could not pay for our needs any other way. I am sure she would have loved to be a homemaker just for her own family back in the day too, but you cannot choose everything and life does not go straight. When living in poverty alone with 3 young children she could not just stay at home and make our home. And I highly doubt that anybody wishes for her daughters to be the person who cleans foreign toilets. Nothing wrong with doing it, but not exactly a dream job. I know she wished she had got her degree earlier, back when she could, so she could have been a teacher when she arrived in England instead.

Whilst of course it is a little over the top to prepare your children for possible dictatorship and illegal migration, I do think that being somewhat prepared for a world where one can plan but nothing is insured, is always good. I want my children to be happy in first instance and they will be expected to pay for their own college if they want to go. Part of why I am so proud of my degree is the fact that it was the first thing is built myself. I worked for it and I struggled but managed. We will of course give emotional support and help them find scholarships and student loans. But in the UK you rarely indept yourself for life with college.
And if they do not wish to go to college we will try to find a strength they can "build" on to make a living, I would not be happy for them to just linger around and hope for benefits. I am happy for my children to be SAH, but they need something to fall back on if life does not go the way they plan. I did not plan this life I have right now, I still enjoy it, but did I not do my degree I would not be able to support this family and we would be in serious trouble.

Finally on the topic of discrimination:
I find it sad that someone would make a difference in expectations from their children. I can understand not wanting any of them to go to college (well, I find it diffcult as my story above explains but I can sort of maybe see it) but to teach their chidren that a daughter should not aspire to do anything but homemaking (while it is ok for a son to do whatever he pleases), well it sort of makes me cringe. I loved the idea of being SAH only to find out after a few weeks that I hated it. I have worked part time or full time for most of my motherhood, just because being a SAHM, which I find a perfectly respectable role and something I know my mother enjoys and I wish I could enjoy, makes me want to put my head through a wall. I admire women who do stay at home and learn to love it.
I feel teaching your daughters that is like me teaching mine that the only job a woman should do is be a dr. I like doing it and it works for our family, why shouldn't I? I had a bad experience when I did something else (namely SAH) and therefore I feel like I am in all my right to do so... but doesn't that sound kind of terrible? Neither Ella nor Lilly are me, how do I know what they want to be, how do I know if they won't be wonderful architects, or teachers, scientists or linguists, managers or SAHM? I want them to be happy and for them to find their happiness I need to give them some freedom to choose what they find happiness in.
M.

 

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