Do you think this will offend people?

The MOTC here is having a consignment sale. I'm not a member, but get the emails/newsletters b/c they want me to join. I just don't have the time or energy! Anyway, I'm attaching the flyer they sent out about the sale. This is the first time I've noticed the logo/seal thing in the bottom right corner. It's a circle with twins in it and says "Charleston Mothers of Twins Club...Where God chooses the members". I live in a very Christian area, so I don't think the mention of God will bother anyone here (although I know it could make some uncomfortable). I have a friend who did IVF and conceived twins, but is very secretive about it and gets really upset by things like this. I'm wondering if she saw it and was upset by it. Do you think it would offend someone who didn't conceive their twins spontaneously? Or am I just reading too much into it??? (I hope this doesn't offend anyone, I think that all twin mommies are chosen are chosen no matter how they conceived!).

 

hmmm, could she have been offended, sure. For me personally, there is much bigger things to even let have a moment of my time or thought so I could care less (and I did IVF).
Now if I was super involved in the organization I would mention that it probably offends people who don't believe in God and why would you want to exclude anyone from joining??? So for that reason I don't like it.

 

Kristi - your avatar is priceless!!! I love it

 

Well, you could say that God still chooses the members. Without God's grace, the twins could have died, which happened to a woman here who gave birth at 26 weeks and both later died. BTW, she is pregnant once again via IVF and passed the 26 week mark today!

 

I think perhaps it would offend some.

 

QUOTE(melissao @ Apr 3 2008, 10:50 PM) [snapback]704106[/snapback]
Kristi - your avatar is priceless!!! I love it


Thanks!!!


And really, when you have to question if it will offend some then it will probably offend ALOT!

 

It COULD, but I dont think it SHOULD> IMO.

 

I did IVF to have my daughter and my twins are spontaneous. I wouldn't be offended because I did IVF but I would be uncomfortable with that statement because I don't believe in god. I can see why some people might not want to join the group if that is their statement.

On the other hand, if someone believes in god..whether they did IVF or not really doesn't play into it. I guess they would think that they were still chosen since transferring the embies is not a sure thing.

 

QUOTE(melissao @ Apr 3 2008, 09:37 PM) [snapback]704098[/snapback]
"Charleston Mothers of Twins Club...Where God chooses the members".



I can't speak for IVF'ers, but I would be TOTALLY turned off by that from an atheist-with-twins perspective. Blech. Thankfully I live in heathen Seattle.

 

It would bug the heck out of me because I don't believe in God. I also think it might be hurtful...what about those who have lost a twin or triplet? It just doesn't seem inclusive or welcoming to me so it might make me think twice about joining.

 

We used fertility help to become pregnant but did not have to go as far as IVF.

I would not be offended by this logo but I also believe in God and believe that without His guidance and hand in the process we would not have become pregnant.

 

As an atheist I do not like it. I think it is exclusive for those who don't believe (or believe in other entities). And I would probably be hesitant to go to a place where having twins make you feel "especially chosen from god". I don't think anyone choses any person to have any children, you make children with your and your DH DNA and if it splits or you ovulate twice you get twins, but it doesn't make you "chosen".
Millie

 

I can see where it could be offensive to people; I feel especially badly for someone who has lost a twin with the implication, suddenly, that they were chosen by God but He had second thoughts. Seems rather cruel.

The Charleston group is affiliated with a Mid-Atlantic group (MAPOM) that has a similar poem on its home page (last line of poem is "It will make you proud that God chose you to be a special mother."). MAPOM is, in turn, a member of NOMOTC. It sort of surprises me that NOMOTC would allow a regional group to make that sort of statement, though, as I would think that NOMOTC would want its clubs to have a more inclusive (e.g. to atheists/agnostics) feel to them.

 

I have to agree with the pp. As an atheist, I would not feel welcome to join that group. You mentioned that you live in a fairly religious area, so maybe they wouldn't mind if the non-believing parents didn't join. But, in the spirit of being all-inclusive, I'd rethink the tag line. Not to mention that there are no doubt many silent non-believers in your area that often feel like they can't join certain groups for fear of offending someone or not being welcome. This group could be a great opportunity to welcome them.

Just my 2 cents though!
Laura

 

Unless the MOTC is specifically a faith-based organization, I don't think that should be on their literature. It seems exclusionary to me, not to mention a bit superior.

 

I believe in G-d, but I would be offended by that. It is typically a Christian type statement, and as a non-Christian, I would feel excluded by it.

 

QUOTE(SweetpeaG @ Apr 4 2008, 12:25 AM) [snapback]704126[/snapback]
I can't speak for IVF'ers, but I would be TOTALLY turned off by that from an atheist-with-twins perspective. Blech. Thankfully I live in heathen Seattle.



QUOTE(azmomto2 @ Apr 4 2008, 12:52 AM) [snapback]704132[/snapback]
It would bug the heck out of me because I don't believe in God. I also think it might be hurtful...what about those who have lost a twin or triplet? It just doesn't seem inclusive or welcoming to me so it might make me think twice about joining.



QUOTE(mac+evie @ Apr 4 2008, 05:37 AM) [snapback]704199[/snapback]
I have to agree with the pp. As an atheist, I would not feel welcome to join that group. You mentioned that you live in a fairly religious area, so maybe they wouldn't mind if the non-believing parents didn't join. But, in the spirit of being all-inclusive, I'd rethink the tag line. Not to mention that there are no doubt many silent non-believers in your area that often feel like they can't join certain groups for fear of offending someone or not being welcome. This group could be a great opportunity to welcome them.

Just my 2 cents though!
Laura



QUOTE(jxnsmama @ Apr 4 2008, 05:41 AM) [snapback]704200[/snapback]
Unless the MOTC is specifically a faith-based organization, I don't think that should be on their literature. It seems exclusionary to me, not to mention a bit superior.



QUOTE(sharongl @ Apr 4 2008, 05:45 AM) [snapback]704203[/snapback]
I believe in G-d, but I would be offended by that. It is typically a Christian type statement, and as a non-Christian, I would feel excluded by it.


Count me in with all of these opinions. I very likely would not join the group because of this (however, I am not much of a joiner).

eta: I wanted to quote Millie, too, but I exceeded the number of allowable quotations.

 

QUOTE(SweetpeaG @ Apr 4 2008, 01:25 AM) [snapback]704126[/snapback]
I can't speak for IVF'ers, but I would be TOTALLY turned off by that from an atheist-with-twins perspective. Blech. Thankfully I live in heathen Seattle.
Living where I do, I probably wouldn't even notice that comment. Honestly, people cross the line all the time here probably because we are in the Bible belt. It doesn't make it right but it's also not something that surprises me.


QUOTE(jxnsmama @ Apr 4 2008, 06:41 AM) [snapback]704200[/snapback]
Unless the MOTC is specifically a faith-based organization, I don't think that should be on their literature. It seems exclusionary to me, not to mention a bit superior.
I don't think of it as superior at all, just someone's misguided idea of sweet. Still, it would be better left off their logo. Even in the South, there are many non-Christians and people are bound to be offended. Honestly, sometimes people just do not think beyond their own little world.

 

QUOTE(excitedk @ Apr 4 2008, 12:58 AM) [snapback]704115[/snapback]
And really, when you have to question if it will offend some then it will probably offend ALOT!


I agree


QUOTE(jxnsmama @ Apr 4 2008, 06:41 AM) [snapback]704200[/snapback]
Unless the MOTC is specifically a faith-based organization, I don't think that should be on their literature.


I agree with this, too.



I think it definitely has the potential to offend some and to turn away prospective members who weren't looking for support from other moms, not a religious group.

 

QUOTE(moski @ Apr 4 2008, 06:52 AM) [snapback]704252[/snapback]
I think it definitely has the potential to offend some and to turn away prospective members who weren't looking for support from other moms, not a religious group.


This would be why I wouldn't join. I'd figure if that was on there religion would figure largely in the meetings, which would make it inappropriate for me.

 

I'm not religious in the Christian sense but think about it this way, even with IVF God does choose. A friend of mine had dozens of failed IVF cycles a set of twins then a singleton (despite using two embryos!) So in a way, it seems like their stance could be that god always chooses the members.

 

As somebody who used methods to get pregnant that are not allowable within a certain Christian religion, I would certainly not want to associate with a group that may learn about my sinning ways and tell me that God didn't really choose me - I cheated.

My MOMs group did a prayer last weekend prior to our garage sale (the one lady heading up the garage sale started it), and I was uncomfortable as were some other ladies. It followed a preparatory meeting and there was no option to stay for prayer or to leave.

 

Our MOTC has the same slogan. Is it their national slogan? I just noticed it on last month's newsletter and was a little turned off by it. I'm not that involved in my club anyway, but when I read it I paused (as an agnostic and an IVF momma).

 

I'm going to go with the devil's advocate point of view. This isn't a gov't organization, no one is required to join. The community is very Christian. I see no problem. I do see how Athiests/Agnostics could/would be turned off, but really I don't think this should be something to get offended by (if you really don't believe in something how can it truly offend you?) No one is saying that singleton moms are devil spawn or evil people so why get offended? This is a private (not publicly funded) organization that does not have compulsory membership...if you don't like it, don't join. If this is/has been their logo, apparently it's been working for them.

 

Melissa, some would argue that God chose me, an IVF'er, have them too.....I'm not offended and not even very religious. SO - I hope not!! :hug99:

 

QUOTE(cwinslow7 @ Apr 4 2008, 08:25 AM) [snapback]704361[/snapback]
I'm going to go with the devil's advocate point of view. This isn't a gov't organization, no one is required to join. The community is very Christian. I see no problem. I do see how Athiests/Agnostics could/would be turned off, but really I don't think this should be something to get offended by (if you really don't believe in something how can it truly offend you?) No one is saying that singleton moms are devil spawn or evil people so why get offended? This is a private (not publicly funded) organization that does not have compulsory membership...if you don't like it, don't join. If this is/has been their logo, apparently it's been working for them.


This is exactly why I would not join. I would assume, perhaps unfairly, based on the logo, that the organization had a religious basis, and that religion would often be discussed. Since I do not believe, and am not interested in participating in things like group prayers, I would not join. I wouldn't take out a campaign against them or anything, but I wouldn't join this any more than I would crash a Bible Study group. I wouldn't be comfortable. Does this mean the group would lose out on my insights, talents and skills? Yes, but they are obviously comfortable with that.

 

QUOTE(~* dfaut *~ @ Apr 4 2008, 09:25 AM) [snapback]704363[/snapback]
Melissa, some would argue that God chose me, an IVF'er, have them too.....I'm not offended and not even very religious. SO - I hope not!! :hug99:


I definitely think God chose you Diane! You're a great mommy I know it is a really senstive topic for some though and I was just wondering about it. I used clomid so I had help too!

 

Our local chapter of POTATO has exactly the same message in bold print at the top of their application. I wondered the very same thing when I read it and dismissed it as just another sign that we live in the Bible Belt.

 

QUOTE(rubyturquoise @ Apr 4 2008, 09:38 AM) [snapback]704391[/snapback]
This is exactly why I would not join. I would assume, perhaps unfairly, based on the logo, that the organization had a religious basis, and that religion would often be discussed. Since I do not believe, and am not interested in participating in things like group prayers, I would not join. I wouldn't take out a campaign against them or anything, but I wouldn't join this any more than I would crash a Bible Study group. I wouldn't be comfortable. Does this mean the group would lose out on my insights, talents and skills? Yes, but they are obviously comfortable with that.


Couldn't agree with you more! But I also have to agree with a PP that said independent of your religious belief, what if you lost a twin, or a set of twins? Would you look at that and think "Gosh, I guess God originally chose me, but then decided better of it?" I just don't like the wording on a trillion levels. But I would never join an organization that had it's faith as part of it's "motto" as I don't believe in God. Plus, I'm an IVFer, so I think according to Christianity, I'm a double heathen!

Erica

 

Christina, I agree that they are within their rights to have such a slogan. It just means that it wouldn't be the right club for me to join. It's a shame though because I LOVE my local club. I have met several good friends through MOMs and have recieved so much support. I would have missed out on a lot if they had excluded me for religious reasons.

 

QUOTE(debid @ Apr 4 2008, 09:57 AM) [snapback]704428[/snapback]
Our local chapter of POTATO has exactly the same message in bold print at the top of their application. I wondered the very same thing when I read it and dismissed it as just another sign that we live in the Bible Belt.


What's POTATO? Great name ...

 

QUOTE(Leighann @ Apr 4 2008, 09:12 AM) [snapback]704341[/snapback]
Our MOTC has the same slogan. Is it their national slogan? I just noticed it on last month's newsletter and was a little turned off by it. I'm not that involved in my club anyway, but when I read it I paused (as an agnostic and an IVF momma).


I just went and looked at our last newsletter. Ours says the same thing and I never noticed it before.

 

I am a memeber of our local MOTC and we dont associate the church with the club on our sales and I thnk that would detur people ... so yes I think it could offend people

 

I am not offended, but I would not join most likely- even as a Christian mom....that seems abit too much of a high and mighty logo for my taste. I would not want to be in a group that may alienate other members.

I wonder if they have ever thought about removing it??? It seems kinda a strong logo for the diverse group of moms that have twins (or more). Unless a group is affiliated with a church specifically, I like to have a wide variety of people the social actities we attend- it is good for me, my husband, and my kids.

 

QUOTE(caba @ Apr 4 2008, 10:18 AM) [snapback]704456[/snapback]
What's POTATO? Great name ...


I was so curious I googled it! "Parents of Twins and Triplets Organization"! It is a great name!

And to OP, I wouldn't be offended, but like others would probably be less likely to join said group.