Do you think this will offend people?

QUOTE(KCMichigan @ Apr 4 2008, 09:52 AM) [snapback]704527[/snapback]
I am not offended, but I would not join most likely- even as a Christian mom....that seems abit too much of a high and mighty logo for my taste. I would not want to be in a group that may alienate other members.

I wonder if they have ever thought about removing it??? It seems kinda a strong logo for the diverse group of moms that have twins (or more). Unless a group is affiliated with a church specifically, I like to have a wide variety of people the social actities we attend- it is good for me, my husband, and my kids.



This is how I feel, too. The word "God" doesn't offend me ... to have that in the logo is no more offensive to me than having something like, "Chosen by Zeus" or similar. It seems silly to me, but I can respect that many people do like/need religious belief in their lives and I don't usually find the needs of others offensive (maybe puzzling but not offensive).

However, I would wonder why the group would make it so clear that it wants to be exclusive (ie. "We're all Christian/religious here; non-Christians/religious not welcome). They are definitely making a very deliberate statement. Of course, I would never join because I dislike groups which make a point of excluding others. To be honest, like Ruby, I'm not much of a joiner anyway, because I think the very nature of groups results in eventually excluding others and I really dislike that and want as little part in it as possible while still functioning in our society. I should add that I know that many groups at least start out attempting to be inclusive, but this one makes no bones about being exclusive right up front, which would turn me off totally. My $.02

 

I agree with Kim that this is probably someone's misguided idea of sweet. Oddly enough people put a lot of thought into their logos but they don't often think about people not like themselves and how they'd feel about hearing such a logo.

Personally I wouldn't join. Even though I'm a Christian I don't really want to go to a MOTC meeting that seems like it's religion based. I realize there's folks who feel like they have a close personal relationship to God or Jesus and talk about them like they're members of their family, but others feel like it's their duty to convert you to their way of thinking and get really pushy about it. It's the pushy people who've turned me off from visiting any religion based things outside of my church and it's activities.

Eta - On the same vein as Renee "Charleston Mothers of Twins Club...Where Demeter chooses the members"

 

Yes, it's the NOMTC slogan and the member organizations use it. I looked it up.

Our local club has their meetings at a medical center rather than a church and I don't get the sense that it's a Christian organization so I do believe it's just a slogan someone thought was cute. I haven't joined because the meeting location/time is extremely inconvenient but I have been considering it because they have some events that might be fun.

Oh, and above the notation of their affiliation with NOMTC and the questionable slogan, it says, "Everyone should have twins... Once!!" Again, I'm sure someone thought it was cute but I couldn't disagree more with the sentiment.

 

QUOTE(melissao @ Apr 3 2008, 08:37 PM) [snapback]704098[/snapback]
I think that all twin mommies are chosen are chosen no matter how they conceived!).

I agree but I am catholic.

QUOTE(excitedk @ Apr 3 2008, 08:42 PM) [snapback]704100[/snapback]
there is much bigger things to even let have a moment of my time or thought so I could care less

Now if I was super involved in the organization I would mention that it probably offends people who don't believe in God and why would you want to exclude anyone from joining??? So for that reason I don't like it.

I agree on both parts here too

I am not sure why a non faith based organizaiton feels the need to bring God into it. I beleive in GOd so it doesn't offend me in any way, I just don't see the need to bring my personal perspective into something that is really irrelevant.

QUOTE(melissao @ Apr 3 2008, 08:50 PM) [snapback]704106[/snapback]
Kristi - your avatar is priceless!!! I love it

agree again, adorable!!

 

QUOTE(Her Royal Jennyness @ Apr 4 2008, 10:51 AM) [snapback]704666[/snapback]
I agree with Kim that this is probably someone's misguided idea of sweet. Oddly enough people put a lot of thought into their logos but they don't often think about people not like themselves and how they'd feel about hearing such a logo.

Personally I wouldn't join. Even though I'm a Christian I don't really want to go to a MOTC meeting that seems like it's religion based. I realize there's folks who feel like they have a close personal relationship to God or Jesus and talk about them like they're members of their family, but others feel like it's their duty to convert you to their way of thinking and get really pushy about it. It's the pushy people who've turned me off from visiting any religion based things outside of my church and it's activities.

Eta - On the same vein as Renee "Charleston Mothers of Twins Club...Where Demeter chooses the members"



I agree with Kim and Jenny that the motive may have been innocent, but I think when you're forming a support group, it might be wiser to think outside your own little "box" and try to be as inclusive as possible, KWIM? Unless, of course, you don't want people other than "your kind" in the group, which is what this logo says to me (perhaps unintentionally, but a logo is a pretty important and visible representation of any organization, so usually not carelessly chosen, I suspect).

Re Jenny's Charleston group-- :laughing: --funny! Or how about Rome Moms of Multiples Club...where Romulus and Remus (the original twin gods!) choose the members!

Back to OT: I just think the group's logo should reflect the group's purpose, which I would have thought was to offer friendship and support to Moms of multiples. Under that umbrella, I am sure group members would discuss all sorts of subjects that interest them or are important to them, including religion, but putting religion in the LOGO shifts the focus from ALL moms of multiples to only religious moms of multiples and makes a definite exclusive statement. JMO

 

I wouldn't be offended by it, but I don't think I'd join or take part in the group. It rings little proselytization warning bells in my head

 

I haven't gotten to read all the other responses yet, but yes, in my opinion, that would offend some people.

Reminds me of a discussion here awhile ago about someone saying something like "god only gives you what you can handle, that's why some have twins", something like that.

That flier just opens a whole can of worms, in my opinion.

 

It would bug me a little, not because of the spontaneous vs. IVF thing, but just because I don't really believe in God, and if there is a God, I don't think he/she had anything to do with my having twins or not. OTOH, a MOTC is a private organization and I guess they can pick whatever they want for their slogan.

QUOTE
I just think the group's logo should reflect the group's purpose, which I would have thought was to offer friendship and support to Moms of multiples. Under that umbrella, I am sure group members would discuss all sorts of subjects that interest them or are important to them, including religion, but putting religion in the LOGO shifts the focus from ALL moms of multiples to only religious moms of multiples and makes a definite exclusive statement.

Ditto this.

 

Too many great posts to quote, I gave up!

I don't think I'd be offended necessarily, but I'd probably do a little inward rolling of the eyes when I saw something like this I agree it's probably someone's idea of "cute" and they have no clue some might be offended. While not offended myself, I also probably wouldn't join because of this. I personally hate all the stuff that talks about how twim Mom's are "chosen", as if we're somehow superior. So silly, IMO.

This is the exact reason why I didn't join the local MOPS group. While I think this one IS religious-based, I didn't know this and when I saw some quotes on the bottom of the facilitators email, I said "not for me". Like a PP said, I'm just not into any type of group that would exclude (intentionally or not) such a huge portion of the population.

 

QUOTE(debid @ Apr 4 2008, 10:52 AM) [snapback]704672[/snapback]
Yes, it's the NOMOTC slogan and the member organizations use it. I looked it up.


Sorry, folks, I was looking at the wrong site. The questionable slogan is nowhere to be found on the main NOMOTC.org site.

At least our local club includes the fathers... I'm always surprised that there are all of these "mother's" clubs when we all know that parenting is usually a 2-person job.

 

QUOTE(debid @ Apr 4 2008, 11:52 AM) [snapback]704782[/snapback]
At least our local club includes the fathers... I'm always surprised that there are all of these "mother's" clubs when we all know that parenting is usually a 2-person job.


Good point. Seems so archaic to not include Dad's in this day and age. Today just had a cool story about stay at home Dads this week and the stigma they still face... (sorry to get OT!)

 

QUOTE(PetiteFleur @ Apr 4 2008, 01:02 PM) [snapback]704802[/snapback]
Good point. Seems so archaic to not include Dad's in this day and age. Today just had a cool story about stay at home Dads this week and the stigma they still face... (sorry to get OT!)



I quoted this because I truly believe there should be Parents of Twins of Clubs...because both parents need the support! As for the flyer with the mention of God, I personally would not be offended unless the group told me that I could not join because I did not subscribe to their particular brand of Christianity. I can totally understand how atheists and those of other faiths would feel excluded and might be offended.

 

First of all..its a CHURCH holding this sale. It says so on the flyer. Second..I believe no matter if someone believes in God or not..he is real, so he does choose us to be mothers and some of us NOT to be mothers.

Of course I do not think it should offend anyone. My opinion.

Brandy

 

QUOTE(PetiteFleur @ Apr 4 2008, 11:42 AM) [snapback]704767[/snapback]
Too many great posts to quote, I gave up!

I don't think I'd be offended necessarily, but I'd probably do a little inward rolling of the eyes when I saw something like this I agree it's probably someone's idea of "cute" and they have no clue some might be offended. While not offended myself, I also probably wouldn't join because of this. I personally hate all the stuff that talks about how twim Mom's are "chosen", as if we're somehow superior. So silly, IMO.

This is the exact reason why I didn't join the local MOPS group. While I think this one IS religious-based, I didn't know this and when I saw some quotes on the bottom of the facilitators email, I said "not for me". Like a PP said, I'm just not into any type of group that would exclude (intentionally or not) such a huge portion of the population.



I am a MOPS leader and they are a CHristian organization. However we do have non-christians involved in our group, they just choose not to listen to the God-speak. LOL

Brandy

 

QUOTE(PetiteFleur @ Apr 4 2008, 11:42 AM) [snapback]704767[/snapback]
I personally hate all the stuff that talks about how twim Mom's are "chosen", as if we're somehow superior.


WHAT? We're NOT superior? I don't know about you all, but I certainly am! :rotflmbo:

I agree with a lot of the posts here that point out if you are going to have a club where multiples are the common denominator, great. But the slogan makes it seem like there are two common denominators, multiples and religion. They are more than welcome to have a club like that, but I probably won't be in it.

 

QUOTE(a1cbrandy @ Apr 4 2008, 12:33 PM) [snapback]704862[/snapback]
First of all..its a CHURCH holding this sale. It says so on the flyer. Second..I believe no matter if someone believes in God or not..he is real, so he does choose us to be mothers and some of us NOT to be mothers.

Of course I do not think it should offend anyone. My opinion.

Brandy



True about the church hosting the sale, but I don't believe they're sponsoring it. I could be wrong, but I thought the multiples club was the sponsor. It seems to me that there are few other options for free space to hold meetings and sales of this scale, other than churches.


Off topic again alert: I used to work for an adoption agency (not religiously affiliated) and we often had meetings or trainings at area churches since our office wasn't centrally located/large enough to accommodate. I had one Jewish family who felt comfortable enough telling us they weren't comfortable with the training site. It made us realize there were likely other people who felt similarly, but didn't mention it for fear of rocking the boat (we were, after all, approving them for adoption). And we had NO connection with the church! Just something to think about.

 

If I was creating a marketing piece, I would NOT chose that tag line. However, it certainly isn't something that I would think twice about. Does everything have to be so politically correct?

Take a look at any piece of currency and you’ll read the motto of the United States, “In God we trust.” Recite the pledge of allegiance and listen to the words. We are described as “one nation under God.” The framers of this country believed in a deity. Its there for the purpose of political rhetoric and certainly not mandated by our Constitution. I guess I don't fully understand why the reference to God causes non-believers any unrest. If you don't believe a higher power even exists, it should come off as an empty statement. Right? Probably take some heat for that.

 

QUOTE(a1cbrandy @ Apr 4 2008, 05:33 PM) [snapback]704862[/snapback]
Second..I believe no matter if someone believes in God or not..he is real, so he does choose us to be mothers and some of us NOT to be mothers.



Ouch.

 

QUOTE(a1cbrandy @ Apr 4 2008, 01:33 PM) [snapback]704862[/snapback]
so he does choose us to be mothers and some of us NOT to be mothers.


And he allows some of us to be offended.

 

To me "Charleston Mothers of Twins Club...Where God chooses the members" would save me from having to join the group. If all the members really believe that, then I probably wouldn't want to spend a lot of time with them. So I'm not at all offended by it being there because it lets me know up front that they are a religious group.

 

QUOTE(a1cbrandy @ Apr 4 2008, 01:33 PM) [snapback]704862[/snapback]
First of all..its a CHURCH holding this sale. It says so on the flyer. Second..I believe no matter if someone believes in God or not..he is real, so he does choose us to be mothers and some of us NOT to be mothers.

Of course I do not think it should offend anyone. My opinion.

Brandy


The church is not holding the sale, they are simply the site for the sale. We hold all our meetings and our sale at a church. They rent the space to us for their profit. It does not mean that we belong to that church or that they sponsor our sale.

And I really think that the people that I know who could not have children would be offended by someone telling them that God chose not to give them children. Just my humble opinion.

 

QUOTE(a1cbrandy @ Apr 4 2008, 12:33 PM) [snapback]704862[/snapback]
First of all..its a CHURCH holding this sale. It says so on the flyer. Second..I believe no matter if someone believes in God or not..he is real, so he does choose us to be mothers and some of us NOT to be mothers.

Of course I do not think it should offend anyone. My opinion.

Brandy



He is REAL to YOU....but that is because you have faith that he exists.

Some people don't have that faith, so therefore, God doesn't exist to them.

 

QUOTE(moski @ Apr 4 2008, 02:42 PM) [snapback]705032[/snapback]
And I really think that the people that I know who could not have children would be offended by someone telling them that God chose not to give them children. Just my humble opinion.


That is what I was concerned about Maureen! That it might imply just that. I'm not offended by God being on there at all (I'm Catholic), but am worried that the part about "choosing" the mothers could hurt some. Like I said, I have one friend who is very sensitive about her infertility and I am concerned that she would read it that way!

ETA - I DO NOT want this thread to become a nasty religious debate! That was not my intention. I just wanted to get an opinion from those who had fertility issues like my friend about whether or not they would find this offensive.

 

QUOTE(Debb-i @ Apr 4 2008, 01:27 PM) [snapback]704987[/snapback]
If I was creating a marketing piece, I would NOT chose that tag line. However, it certainly isn't something that I would think twice about. Does everything have to be so politically correct?

Take a look at any piece of currency and you’ll read the motto of the United States, “In God we trust.†Recite the pledge of allegiance and listen to the words. We are described as “one nation under God.†The framers of this country believed in a deity. Its there for the purpose of political rhetoric and certainly not mandated by our Constitution. I guess I don't fully understand why the reference to God causes non-believers any unrest. If you don't believe a higher power even exists, it should come off as an empty statement. Right? Probably take some heat for that.


That was added to the pledge in 1954 during McCarthyism and the hysteria about communism.

I am not big on political correctness myself, but that logo would be a red flag to me that the group was a religious group, and I would not join it. The unrest comes from the perception that areligious folks would not be welcome, not from the reference to God itself. I know that can be hard to picture if one isn't walking outside the "norm," but as a person who almost always has (what I read, what music I liked, what clothes I wore, not going to church), it pays to be sensitive to this potential. People can be deliberately exclusive, or sometimes just thoughtlessly unkind, to other people who are square pegs.

eta: comma

 

I can see where someone who had fertility problems would take offense to it. Kinda like it is saying, You can't have kids because you are not good enough and don't deserve kids.

 

QUOTE(Debb-i @ Apr 4 2008, 01:27 PM) [snapback]704987[/snapback]
If I was creating a marketing piece, I would NOT chose that tag line. However, it certainly isn't something that I would think twice about. Does everything have to be so politically correct?

Take a look at any piece of currency and you’ll read the motto of the United States, “In God we trust.†Recite the pledge of allegiance and listen to the words. We are described as “one nation under God.†The framers of this country believed in a deity. Its there for the purpose of political rhetoric and certainly not mandated by our Constitution. I guess I don't fully understand why the reference to God causes non-believers any unrest. If you don't believe a higher power even exists, it should come off as an empty statement. Right? Probably take some heat for that.



Debbi, it is not the mention of "God" that most of us object to but the suggestion that "God" chose certain people to be mothers. Also, the prominent display of a religious logo clearly says to non-religious people "Stay away, we only want religious people"...which does not cause me any "unrest" since, like a PP very aptly pointed out, saves me the trouble of finding out too late that the group is totally not my style! LOL however, if they want to claim to be a group primarily for moms of twins, and not primarily to be a religious group of moms who happen to also have multiples, then they have the wrong logo.

Re your other points; I disagree with you about the Founders of this great Republic. Many of them did not believe in a "deity" per se, or at least not in the Biblical one, and they deliberately and consciously framed the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence in non-religious terms, so that the country would be founded upon enlightened principles and would be free of the sectarian strife which has torn apart every country in history at some time or other. The words on currency and in the Pledge were added in this century in response the the anti-communist hysteria following WW1 and WW11....Communism was linked in the public mind with atheism and so the unconstitutional public declarations of religiosity were inserted at that vulnerable time in history to very little public protest.

I theorize that the holdover hatred for communism and the way it is linked in the minds of the religious with atheism partly explains why atheists are persecuted and oppressed by the Christian majority in this society more than any other group or minority religion and why so few people dare to openly admit to the fact that they are atheist. But, I digress...sorry Melissa!


ETA I see that while I was composing, Ruby was already posting making the same point about the Pledge!

 

I just wanted to say, I posted earlier that we have that slogan on my MOMs club newsletter as well. And the group is not about religion at all (as I said, I never noticed it before). I just joined last year, but have never had a discussion about God or religion at the meetings, nor have I heard anyone else discussing it.

 

I would not be offended, but I am from the bible belt so this kind of thing is all around me. I guess I am kind of sheltered because I did not know that this kind of thing would offend someone. I need to get out more :blink: .

 

I feel so lucky, I am apparently chosen-squared! I am one of the "chosen people" (I'm jewish) and a "chosen" mom of twins. I'm so glad that god took a personal interest in my ovulation and decided I should release two eggs.

Anyways, to repeat what many others have said . . . I am not offended by the statement, but it certainly would not make me want to join the group. Yes, it is a private, non-publicly funded group. I don't think anyone is saying they do not have the right to have this tagline. I think the organizers should just be aware that it will keep some people away, and think about whether or not they want to appear exclusive.

Then perhaps I'll go found my own organization called AAUJCMBHLGBSTTSIILYOPOM (atheist, agnostic, undecided, jewish, christian, muslim, buddhist, hindi, lesbian, gay, bisexual, straight, transexual, transgender, sorry if I left you out parents of multiples), tagline: "where ovulation, chance embryo division, drugs, petri dishes, surrogates, or the god(s) of your choice chose you to be a member".

Anyone want to be on the board of directors?

Sorry, just having fun.

-Rachel

 

QUOTE(Debb-i @ Apr 4 2008, 11:27 AM) [snapback]704987[/snapback]
Does everything have to be so politically correct?


No, it doesn't have to be politically correct. I think that's what MOST people here are saying. Would it irk me? YES. Would I join? NO. Would I give it any further thought? Not one bit.

QUOTE
Take a look at any piece of currency and you’ll read the motto of the United States, “In God we trust.” Recite the pledge of allegiance and listen to the words. We are described as “one nation under God.” The framers of this country believed in a deity. Its there for the purpose of political rhetoric and certainly not mandated by our Constitution. I guess I don't fully understand why the reference to God causes non-believers any unrest. If you don't believe a higher power even exists, it should come off as an empty statement. Right? Probably take some heat for that.


Okay, I'll field this one...

You're right, it does come off as an empty statement. HOWEVER, it is a double standard to 'offer' things like freedom of (which includes freedom FROM) religion on the one hand and then pepper (a pointedly Christian view of) religion into aspects of a government that claims to separate church and state. I find it much more ironic than I do 'troubling'. Just my (not so humble) opinion.

 

QUOTE(RachelJoy @ Apr 4 2008, 02:41 PM) [snapback]705176[/snapback]
Then perhaps I'll go found my own organization called AAUJCMBHLGBSTTSIILYOPOM (atheist, agnostic, undecided, jewish, christian, muslim, buddhist, hindi, lesbian, gay, bisexual, straight, transexual, transgender, sorry if I left you out parents of multiples), tagline: "where ovulation, chance embryo division, drugs, petri dishes, surrogates, or the god(s) of your choice chose you to be a member".

Anyone want to be on the board of directors?
-Rachel


Awesome! Can I join?

 

QUOTE(RachelJoy @ Apr 4 2008, 12:41 PM) [snapback]705176[/snapback]
I feel so lucky, I am apparently chosen-squared! I am one of the "chosen people" (I'm jewish) and a "chosen" mom of twins. I'm so glad that god took a personal interest in my ovulation and decided I should release two eggs.

Anyways, to repeat what many others have said . . . I am not offended by the statement, but it certainly would not make me want to join the group. Yes, it is a private, non-publicly funded group. I don't think anyone is saying they do not have the right to have this tagline. I think the organizers should just be aware that it will keep some people away, and think about whether or not they want to appear exclusive.

Then perhaps I'll go found my own organization called AAUJCMBHLGBSTTSIILYOPOM (atheist, agnostic, undecided, jewish, christian, muslim, buddhist, hindi, lesbian, gay, bisexual, straight, transexual, transgender, sorry if I left you out parents of multiples), tagline: "where ovulation, chance embryo division, drugs, petri dishes, surrogates, or the god(s) of your choice chose you to be a member".

Anyone want to be on the board of directors?

Sorry, just having fun.

-Rachel


You are awesome
I second this whole post!
oh...and I am also doubly chosen as well

 

QUOTE(RachelJoy @ Apr 4 2008, 02:41 PM) [snapback]705176[/snapback]
Then perhaps I'll go found my own organization called AAUJCMBHLGBSTTSIILYOPOM (atheist, agnostic, undecided, jewish, christian, muslim, buddhist, hindi, lesbian, gay, bisexual, straight, transexual, transgender, sorry if I left you out parents of multiples), tagline: "where ovulation, chance embryo division, drugs, petri dishes, surrogates, or the god(s) of your choice chose you to be a member".

Anyone want to be on the board of directors?

Sorry, just having fun.

-Rachel



Love it! I'll be on your board! :rotflmbo: :rotflmbo:

 

QUOTE(RachelJoy @ Apr 4 2008, 02:41 PM) [snapback]705176[/snapback]
I feel so lucky, I am apparently chosen-squared! I am one of the "chosen people" (I'm jewish) and a "chosen" mom of twins. I'm so glad that god took a personal interest in my ovulation and decided I should release two eggs.

Anyways, to repeat what many others have said . . . I am not offended by the statement, but it certainly would not make me want to join the group. Yes, it is a private, non-publicly funded group. I don't think anyone is saying they do not have the right to have this tagline. I think the organizers should just be aware that it will keep some people away, and think about whether or not they want to appear exclusive.

Then perhaps I'll go found my own organization called AAUJCMBHLGBSTTSIILYOPOM (atheist, agnostic, undecided, jewish, christian, muslim, buddhist, hindi, lesbian, gay, bisexual, straight, transexual, transgender, sorry if I left you out parents of multiples), tagline: "where ovulation, chance embryo division, drugs, petri dishes, surrogates, or the god(s) of your choice chose you to be a member".

Anyone want to be on the board of directors?

Sorry, just having fun.

-Rachel



You are so funny! :bow2: I would join your club in a minute! Sounds like it would be a blast and full of interesting, wonderful people!!! :love0028:

 

Just to let everyone know..

This horrible mean selfish Christian person who said :

First of all..its a CHURCH holding this sale. It says so on the flyer. Second..I believe no matter if someone believes in God or not..he is real, so he does choose us to be mothers and some of us NOT to be mothers

WAS not talking about anyone here. I was talking about myself. I sometimes wonder if I was meant to be a MOTHER and should I have gone through infertility treatments..or just waited on God to take care of it all FOR ME!!! I was not talking about anyone here..I was not talking about people who can't have babies..I dealt with infertility for 4 yrs..and no matter what I would not wish that on my worse enemy.

I am so done with being the bad guy here. I am sorry if I hurt your feelings. It was NOT my intention. I was talking about MYSELF.

I believe in God..I believe he chooses us to go through something different for strength and Faith. Thats my beliefs.

Anyways..just wanted to say sorry. I am evil and should now be executed for my awful words...


Brandy