Do you think this will offend people?

Discussion in 'General' started by melissao, Apr 3, 2008.

  1. bridgeport

    bridgeport Well-Known Member

    QUOTE(a1cbrandy @ Apr 4 2008, 01:04 PM) [snapback]705241[/snapback]
    WAS not talking about anyone here. I was talking about myself.


    I'm sorry, but that just doesn't make sense to me. So God decided that you were not ready to be a mother, but he didn't decide that everyone else who can't get pregnant is not ready to be a mother? So, does God decide this or doesn't he? I'm so confused how you could have made the earlier statement and then said it was just about you and nobody else.
     
  2. Snittens

    Snittens Well-Known Member

    QUOTE(rubyturquoise @ Apr 4 2008, 03:01 PM) [snapback]705082[/snapback]
    That was added to the pledge in 1954 during McCarthyism and the hysteria about communism.

    I am not big on political correctness myself, but that logo would be a red flag to me that the group was a religious group, and I would not join it. The unrest comes from the perception that areligious folks would not be welcome, not from the reference to God itself. I know that can be hard to picture if one isn't walking outside the "norm," but as a person who almost always has (what I read, what music I liked, what clothes I wore, not going to church), it pays to be sensitive to this potential. People can be deliberately exclusive, or sometimes just thoughtlessly unkind, to other people who are square pegs.

    eta: comma

    Right. I wouldn't be offended per se, but I would look at the flyer, think "Oh neat! A twins club!" and then look at the slogan and think "Oh well, guess this isn't for me." since I am 1) not a Christian, and 2) wasn't "chosen", used medical science to get around being "chosen" to be infertile.
     
  3. annelily2000

    annelily2000 Well-Known Member

    I see where you are coming from now Brandy. But, you indeed used the word us. I'm not throwing rocks here and do not think you are a bad person.
     
  4. missmomoftwins02

    missmomoftwins02 Well-Known Member

    QUOTE(a1cbrandy @ Apr 4 2008, 11:33 AM) [snapback]704862[/snapback]
    First of all..its a CHURCH holding this sale. It says so on the flyer. Second..I believe no matter if someone believes in God or not..he is real, so he does choose us to be mothers and some of us NOT to be mothers.

    As someone else said, the Church is the LOCATION of the sale, not the sponser.

    I am a Christian, but I agree with others that this statement (in the logo of the club) is very exclusive and is NOT appropriate for a non-religious based club. If you want to be in a religious-based parenting group, join MOPS-Mothers of PreSchoolers or some other religious group. If you want to have a religious-based TWINS parenting group, it should be advertised as such...as not to mis-respresent the club as an all-inclusive one. I would rather have all types of ppl (religious or not) in the MOTC...I think it is good for us to learn from eachother. JMO, of course.

    QUOTE
    You mentioned that you live in a fairly religious area, so maybe they wouldn't mind if the non-believing parents didn't join. But, in the spirit of being all-inclusive, I'd rethink the tag line.

    QUOTE(jennyj @ Apr 4 2008, 08:43 AM) [snapback]704507[/snapback]
    I am a memeber of our local MOTC and we dont associate the church with the club on our sales and I thnk that would detur people ... so yes I think it could offend people

    I agree here! I live in a predominenetly LDS area, and among those not LDS, this is a highly Christian area. I suggested a couple months ago that we hold one of our activities in an LDS Church building instead of someone's home so that we would have more room, but the MOTC Pres said that alot of ppl would not come if it was held in ANY church...they just would not feel comfortable with it. Most of our MOTC...including the President, Activities Chair, and others...are Christian, but not LDS...but even the thought of it being in a LDS, Catholic, Baptist or any other Church building turned ppl off from coming to activities. We hold our 2 sales in the parking lot of a local grocery store. We hold meetings in the library, Wild Oats cafe area, a restaraunt, or in someone's home. The Halloween Party is in a community center and the Summer Picnic is at a local park. This way everyone is comfortable and included!

    QUOTE(debid @ Apr 4 2008, 10:52 AM) [snapback]704782[/snapback]
    At least our local club includes the fathers... I'm always surprised that there are all of these "mother's" clubs when we all know that parenting is usually a 2-person job.

    The main MOTC I am in is the Salt Lake Mothers of Twins but I also participate in MNO's and a few other activities for the Northern Utah Parents of Multiples. I am OK with it being called a MOTHERS of twins club, since the moms are the ones who mostly participate, but I understand the desire to include the dads too...as there are a few FAMILY activities where Dads come too (Valentines Couples Night Out, Halloween Party, Summer Picnic, Super Sales). I am OK with it being called either.
     
  5. PetiteFleur

    PetiteFleur Well-Known Member

    QUOTE(a1cbrandy @ Apr 4 2008, 03:04 PM) [snapback]705241[/snapback]
    Just to let everyone know..

    This horrible mean selfish Christian person who said :

    First of all..its a CHURCH holding this sale. It says so on the flyer. Second..I believe no matter if someone believes in God or not..he is real, so he does choose us to be mothers and some of us NOT to be mothers

    I believe in God..I believe he chooses us to go through something different for strength and Faith. Thats my beliefs.

    Anyways..just wanted to say sorry. I am evil and should now be executed for my awful words...
    Brandy


    Brandy,

    I don't think you were trying to hurt anyone's feelings and I certainly don't think you're evil! I didn't comment on it the first time around, but the part of your post that struck me was the one I bolded above. You say that "no matter if someone believes in God or not, his is real". To me, this is contradictory. You didn't say he is real to YOU, , just that "he is real" thus implying those who don't believe are wrong. Now, I fully believe if an atheist said "no matter if you believe in God or not, he is NOT real", we'd have lots of people up in arms.

    I think people who don't believe (and some who do) are trying to say they resent the implication that those who have trouble or who can't have children are not "chosen" by God to be parents because they are somehow unworthy and THAT is what is hurtful. I'm pretty sure that's not what you meant.
     
  6. azmomto2

    azmomto2 Well-Known Member

    QUOTE(RachelJoy @ Apr 4 2008, 12:41 PM) [snapback]705176[/snapback]
    I feel so lucky, I am apparently chosen-squared! I am one of the "chosen people" (I'm jewish) and a "chosen" mom of twins. I'm so glad that god took a personal interest in my ovulation and decided I should release two eggs.

    Anyways, to repeat what many others have said . . . I am not offended by the statement, but it certainly would not make me want to join the group. Yes, it is a private, non-publicly funded group. I don't think anyone is saying they do not have the right to have this tagline. I think the organizers should just be aware that it will keep some people away, and think about whether or not they want to appear exclusive.

    Then perhaps I'll go found my own organization called AAUJCMBHLGBSTTSIILYOPOM (atheist, agnostic, undecided, jewish, christian, muslim, buddhist, hindi, lesbian, gay, bisexual, straight, transexual, transgender, sorry if I left you out parents of multiples), tagline: "where ovulation, chance embryo division, drugs, petri dishes, surrogates, or the god(s) of your choice chose you to be a member".

    Anyone want to be on the board of directors?

    Sorry, just having fun.

    -Rachel



    ME ME Can I join! That's gonna be one heck of a Christmas party :banana:
     
  7. PetiteFleur

    PetiteFleur Well-Known Member

    QUOTE(azmomto2 @ Apr 4 2008, 04:15 PM) [snapback]705398[/snapback]
    ME ME Can I join! That's gonna be one heck of a Christmas party :banana:


    You mean "Winter Celebration", right? ;)

    (I worked at an agency where we actually did have to change "Christmas Party" to something non-religious. Made sense to me, it wasn't a religious organization...)
     
  8. SweetpeaG

    SweetpeaG Well-Known Member

    QUOTE(azmomto2 @ Apr 4 2008, 02:15 PM) [snapback]705398[/snapback]
    That's gonna be one heck of a Christmas party :banana:


    :rotflmbo: Now THAT'S funny! Just think of all the 'celebrations' this organization would have to avoid to avoid offense! Are Jehovah's Witnesses included? That would put a wrench in the festivities (this is not a comment toward JWs, just a good laugh about imagining a group so diverse coming up with an all-inclusive party). ;)
     
  9. azmomto2

    azmomto2 Well-Known Member

    QUOTE(PetiteFleur @ Apr 4 2008, 02:28 PM) [snapback]705420[/snapback]
    You mean "Winter Celebration", right? ;)

    (I worked at an agency where we actually did have to change "Christmas Party" to something non-religious. Made sense to me, it wasn't a religious organization...)



    Oops, you are totally right and I should have known better B) Hee Hee, I think Winter Celebration would work...or maybe we should just call it "Happy Hour" or "Night to get Your Groove on Without the Kids." Or maybe it should be "The One Night a Year we Actually Pay for a Babysitter."
     
  10. avaoliviamom

    avaoliviamom Well-Known Member

    That is in my twins club too here in NJ. But to be honest they rarely use it on any correspondence or anything.
     
  11. twoplustwo

    twoplustwo Well-Known Member

    QUOTE(PetiteFleur @ Apr 4 2008, 01:28 PM) [snapback]705420[/snapback]
    You mean "Winter Celebration", right? ;)

    (I worked at an agency where we actually did have to change "Christmas Party" to something non-religious. Made sense to me, it wasn't a religious organization...)



    QUOTE(SweetpeaG @ Apr 4 2008, 01:29 PM) [snapback]705422[/snapback]
    :rotflmbo: Now THAT'S funny! Just think of all the 'celebrations' this organization would have to avoid to avoid offense! Are Jehovah's Witnesses included? That would put a wrench in the festivities (this is not a comment toward JWs, just a good laugh about imagining a group so diverse coming up with an all-inclusive party). ;)


    You ladies are cracking me up!! :rotflmbo:
     
  12. caba

    caba Banned

    QUOTE(a1cbrandy @ Apr 4 2008, 01:33 PM) [snapback]704862[/snapback]
    First of all..its a CHURCH holding this sale. It says so on the flyer. Second..I believe no matter if someone believes in God or not..he is real, so he does choose us to be mothers and some of us NOT to be mothers.

    Of course I do not think it should offend anyone. My opinion. :)

    Brandy


    Brandy, you have just given me another example of why "your" God sounds like such a **** to me... I wasn't "chosen" to be a mother. I had to have those wonderful scientist get me knocked up! Can I get a hallelujah for science??

    Erica
     
  13. Stacy A.

    Stacy A. Well-Known Member

    QUOTE(PetiteFleur @ Apr 4 2008, 05:03 PM) [snapback]705371[/snapback]
    Brandy,

    I don't think you were trying to hurt anyone's feelings and I certainly don't think you're evil! I didn't comment on it the first time around, but the part of your post that struck me was the one I bolded above. You say that "no matter if someone believes in God or not, his is real". To me, this is contradictory. You didn't say he is real to YOU, , just that "he is real" thus implying those who don't believe are wrong. Now, I fully believe if an atheist said "no matter if you believe in God or not, he is NOT real", we'd have lots of people up in arms.


    I don't think that this would bother me at all. In fact, I would find it a lot easier to accept than the statement that He doesn't exist for YOU. I believe in an absolute Truth. Either something is true or it isn't. Yes, for some statements part of it could be true and part false, but I am referring to the idea of objective vs. subjective reality. I believe that there is a Truth. So, if someone said, "no matter if you believe in God or not, he is NOT real" I would accept that they believe that and that I do not. Neither my belief not their's would affect whether there is a God or not. I know what I base my beliefs on and, while I may be sad that someone is missing out on the joy that I have with Christ and what my relationship with Him means to my life, I would not be angry that they believed something different than me.

    I do believe that someone has to be wrong. Either there is a God or there isn't. If you accept that anything is true (the Earth is round, gravity exists, etc.) you have to believe that there is a Truth. Otherwise, I could say, "I don't believe in gravity, therefore, for ME, it doesn't exist and I can walk of a cliff and will be fine." I think we would find out that there is a truth in gravity when I hit the ground, no matter what I believed about it. By saying that, just because you don't believe in Him, He doesn't exist for YOU, doesn't really make sense. Now, if you said, you don't believe in Him, therefore He just doesn't exist (for anyone), that would at least make sense. I understand that people believe or don't believe in things, but I don't understand people believing that reality is subjective.

    BTW, because I know some people may comment on my statement about being sad, I want to explain what I mean. When you know how much something means to you and what joy it brings to you and everyone you know who shares the same thing, you want it for everyone. This is based on caring about others, not about trying to force religion on them. I hope that everyone one can take that statement as it is meant.
     
  14. Heathermomof5

    Heathermomof5 Well-Known Member

    I do not believe that God would choose someone who really wanted a baby - and d**n her to a childless life - that is cruel and unusual punishment in my book.

    I would tend to not pay much attention to it - but now that I really think about it - as an IVF mother and as a friend of a lady who wants to be pregnant so bad - worse than anything but just found out that she will never carry a baby - yeah it's offensive. and to think about a woman longing for a baby but God being the one to deny her - that's not my God or anyone that I would ever believe in.
     
  15. brianamurnion

    brianamurnion Well-Known Member

    QUOTE(Stacy A. @ Apr 4 2008, 05:51 PM) [snapback]705647[/snapback]
    I don't think that this would bother me at all. In fact, I would find it a lot easier to accept than the statement that He doesn't exist for YOU. I believe in an absolute Truth. Either something is true or it isn't. Yes, for some statements part of it could be true and part false, but I am referring to the idea of objective vs. subjective reality. I believe that there is a Truth. So, if someone said, "no matter if you believe in God or not, he is NOT real" I would accept that they believe that and that I do not. Neither my belief not their's would affect whether there is a God or not. I know what I base my beliefs on and, while I may be sad that someone is missing out on the joy that I have with Christ and what my relationship with Him means to my life, I would not be angry that they believed something different than me.

    I do believe that someone has to be wrong. Either there is a God or there isn't. If you accept that anything is true (the Earth is round, gravity exists, etc.) you have to believe that there is a Truth. Otherwise, I could say, "I don't believe in gravity, therefore, for ME, it doesn't exist and I can walk of a cliff and will be fine." I think we would find out that there is a truth in gravity when I hit the ground, no matter what I believed about it. By saying that, just because you don't believe in Him, He doesn't exist for YOU, doesn't really make sense. Now, if you said, you don't believe in Him, therefore He just doesn't exist (for anyone), that would at least make sense. I understand that people believe or don't believe in things, but I don't understand people believing that reality is subjective.

    BTW, because I know some people may comment on my statement about being sad, I want to explain what I mean. When you know how much something means to you and what joy it brings to you and everyone you know who shares the same thing, you want it for everyone. This is based on caring about others, not about trying to force religion on them. I hope that everyone one can take that statement as it is meant.



    Wow that was a really good way of explaining things. I guess someday we will all know the Truth huh? (I mean... that is what I believe) Anyway very good way of saying it.
     
  16. bridgeport

    bridgeport Well-Known Member

    QUOTE(7Ms @ Apr 4 2008, 07:51 PM) [snapback]705945[/snapback]
    Wow that was a really good way of explaining things. I guess someday we will all know the Truth huh? (I mean... that is what I believe) Anyway very good way of saying it.


    Ahhh, that's the tricky part, isn't it? If God does exist, we may someday find out the truth. If God doesn't exist, we'll be nothingness and won't know or care that we ever thought one way or the other about God. Bottom line, none of us (regardless of what we believe) is ever going to be able to say 'told you so' to anyone else in this life. That's what makes it such an interesting debate...it can never conclusively end. :huh:
     
  17. 2IrishBlessings

    2IrishBlessings Well-Known Member

    I havent been able to read all the posts but I can see how it could easily offend people.

    QUOTE
    Unless the MOTC is specifically a faith-based organization, I don't think that should be on their literature. It seems exclusionary to me, not to mention a bit superior


    I agree
     
  18. fuchsiagroan

    fuchsiagroan Well-Known Member

  19. dtlyme

    dtlyme Well-Known Member

    QUOTE(rubyturquoise @ Apr 4 2008, 07:57 AM) [snapback]704254[/snapback]
    This would be why I wouldn't join. I'd figure if that was on there religion would figure largely in the meetings, which would make it inappropriate for me.


    Same here. It just doesn't sound all-inclusive and I would stay away! As someone who did conceive my twins via IVF I certainly would not want to hang out with a bunch of mothers who consider themselves "chosen" and would make me feel "un-chosen". If there is such a word!
     
  20. Jayn

    Jayn Well-Known Member

    I guess I’ll throw in my stand on this one. As a Christian, I believe that God is in control of everything. I believe that before the foundations of the earth were even laid, God had a plan that included every single person who would ever live. I don’t believe that “science” is capable of doing anything without God. I’m just stating this because if I saw that flyer, I wouldn’t think that it was excluding IVFers at all. I would say that God chose all mothers to be mothers. Then comes the hard part to understand. . . does that mean that God chose that some people would not be mothers at all? I would say that God does all things for His Glory and I don’t always understand the “why” of it. I trust Him and if I knew all of the answers, it wouldn’t be walking by faith. I don’t think it has to be because God withdrew His grace as someone stated. When we experienced losing a baby, I experienced the grace of God more than ever before. I hate debates, but felt like speaking up.
     
  21. Donita

    Donita Well-Known Member

    QUOTE(fuchsiagroan @ Apr 5 2008, 06:53 AM) [snapback]706173[/snapback]
    So did God choose for these people to be parents?

    THIS is exactly why I don't believe any god has a hand in our day to day lives. How could any loving god be so unfair? How could any loving god be so cruel to those who are faithful while rewarding those who are not?
     
  22. Tam1969

    Tam1969 Well-Known Member

    QUOTE(SoBlessed @ Apr 5 2008, 02:43 PM) [snapback]706306[/snapback]
    I guess I’ll throw in my stand on this one. As a Christian, I believe that God is in control of everything. I believe that before the foundations of the earth were even laid, God had a plan that included every single person who would ever live. I don’t believe that “science” is capable of doing anything without God. I’m just stating this because if I saw that flyer, I wouldn’t think that it was excluding IVFers at all. I would say that God chose all mothers to be mothers. Then comes the hard part to understand. . . does that mean that God chose that some people would not be mothers at all? I would say that God does all things for His Glory and I don’t always understand the “why” of it. I trust Him and if I knew all of the answers, it wouldn’t be walking by faith. I don’t think it has to be because God withdrew His grace as someone stated. When we experienced losing a baby, I experienced the grace of God more than ever before. I hate debates, but felt like speaking up.


    Great post! :)
     
  23. Ellen Barr

    Ellen Barr Well-Known Member

    I haven't read all of the responses, but, yes, I would find that offensive. It's probably not meant to be a judgment on people without kids or twins, but it comes across that way. At the same time, I'd sort of appreciate seeing that, since it would make my decision NOT to join a very easy one.
     
  24. Elizabeth H

    Elizabeth H Well-Known Member

    QUOTE(Donita @ Apr 5 2008, 08:43 PM) [snapback]706687[/snapback]
    THIS is exactly why I don't believe any god has a hand in our day to day lives. How could any loving god be so unfair? How could any loving god be so cruel to those who are faithful while rewarding those who are not?


    That is the beauty of free will that God gave to us. We have free will to turn away from God, as some people have done and free will to choose to turn to Him. Everyone asks those type of questions. The fact is that there is sadness and pain here and good people that suffer and die. We aren't promised happiness during this time, unfortunately. There have been many times I wish we had been. I believe this life is a test to see if we are worthy to heaven. Again what I believe. I believe we have crosses to bear and sometimes we can't escape our "cross". Just thought I would answer your question Donita. :D



    I'm Catholic and went through infertilty before I concieved the girls and actually been ttcing right now for almost a year without success again. I even went through a miscarriage. So I'm dealing with IF again. Even though I have children it's still painful to go through. I believe God does choose us to be mothers whether they used medical intervention or spontaneously. I met another Catholic woman who was dealing with being childess. She would not do IVF and said this was her cross to bear. That God had given her this cross and she would bear it. I thought she was amazing because I don't know if I could do it, live childless. She trully believed this is what God had given her and she was working through it.


    I honestly see no problem with the slogan and I have gone through IF and I wouldn't think that it is excluding. I don't understand why God is such a dirty word to some people. Like Debbi mentioned this country was founded on Christian principles like she mentioned "In GOD We Trust". If you don't want to join the group then don't join there are lots of mom groups out there.

    Elizabeth
     
  25. Donita

    Donita Well-Known Member

    I haven't turned away from GOD, I just don't believe that any god would pick and choose who had a great life and who had a life full of pain and misery. HE doesn't pick who can easily get pregnant any more than HE picks which baby gets shaken to death, or which 13 yr old girl gets abducted, raped and murdered. What kind of a god would pick a child for that? What kind of a god would pick a woman strung out on drugs and alcohol to be a mother, while ignoring the prayers and pleas of the woman who is clean and sitting in the front pew of Church ever Saturday/Sunday? What kind of a god allows a drunk to walk away from an accident that just killed a beautiful family of 4?

    I do believe in GOD, and Jesus, I just don't believe that either of them has anything to do with who is favored and who isn't. A loving god would not play favorites like that.
     
  26. niftywriter

    niftywriter Well-Known Member

    QUOTE(Donita @ Apr 6 2008, 09:06 AM) [snapback]707479[/snapback]
    I haven't turned away from GOD, I just don't believe that any god would pick and choose who had a great life and who had a life full of pain and misery. HE doesn't pick who can easily get pregnant any more than HE picks which baby gets shaken to death, or which 13 yr old girl gets abducted, raped and murdered. What kind of a god would pick a child for that? What kind of a god would pick a woman strung out on drugs and alcohol to be a mother, while ignoring the prayers and pleas of the woman who is clean and sitting in the front pew of Church ever Saturday/Sunday? What kind of a god allows a drunk to walk away from an accident that just killed a beautiful family of 4?

    I do believe in GOD, and Jesus, I just don't believe that either of them has anything to do with who is favored and who isn't. A loving god would not play favorites like that.


    Amen! :bow2:
     
  27. Emily@Home

    Emily@Home Well-Known Member

    QUOTE
    Do you think it would offend someone who didn't conceive their twins spontaneously? Or am I just reading too much into it??? (I hope this doesn't offend anyone, I think that all twin mommies are chosen are chosen no matter how they conceived!).


    I am a Christian, and I do believe that ALL life was created by God. . . whether the multiple babies were spontaneous or whether someone had fertility treatment or other help. Each one of these children are precious, unique creations IMO.

    Such a motto might offend a mother/father who did not have spontaneous multiples as at some point they may have felt criticized for their choice to seek help. . . and I think that's just terrible that someone made them feel that way. The motto does come across a little bit strong, and I'm not sure what to make of it myself as they aren't very clear on their stance concerning how they feel as an organization about fertility treatments, etc.

    I see absolutely no problem though with a multiples support group rooting themselves in a particular belief or lifestyle. Yes, it may seem exclusive to some. It may anger some. It may offend some. But don't we all wish to seek out like-minded individuals for support? The atheist parent may prefer the company of other atheists. The Catholic mom may want to socialize with other Catholics. The same-sex parent may be more comfortable with other same-sex parents. Etc. It's not about intolerance or narrowmindedness as much as it is about each person's own choices and values. We can still respect one another's right to make that choice, and I think it's a travesty that we would let freedom of choice in such a matter offend us. . . We wouldn't want our choices taken away, would we?

    I find this interesting that the motto has become debate-able more as an offense because it's a "Christian" type statement versus whether it would hurt the feelings of someone who chose IVF and is sensitive that some people don't believe that IVF fits with being chosen by God to parent multiples.

    It is easy to find offense in anything really. Think of it this way: Imagine how singleton parents, never having the opportunity to parent multiples, might feel when they are told they can't join a multiples support group OR even attend one of these great consignment sales? And imagine how the singleton parent must feel when he/she reads "where the members are chosen by God" as if parents of multiples are something more special than parents of singletons. . . Getting offended is one of the easiest things in the world.

    Anyway, just way more than my two cents worth. Forgive me for the length!
     
  28. Donita

    Donita Well-Known Member

    QUOTE
    I find this interesting that the motto has become debate-able more as an offense because it's a "Christian" type statement versus whether it would hurt the feelings of someone who chose IVF and is sensitive that some people don't believe that IVF fits with being chosen by God to parent multiples.
    Maybe I missed some posts, but I thought that's why people were offended by it. Because it implied some were chosen and some were not, and it hurt feelings. All the posts I've seen have said they don't care if it is affiliated with a religion or not.
     
  29. BGTwins97

    BGTwins97 Well-Known Member

    QUOTE(Donita @ Apr 6 2008, 12:03 PM) [snapback]707617[/snapback]
    Maybe I missed some posts, but I thought that's why people were offended by it. Because it implied some were chosen and some were not, and it hurt feelings. All the posts I've seen have said they don't care if it is affiliated with a religion or not.


    I've read it as the "chosen" part being offensive, but the "religious" part being unwelcoming such that those who aren't religious would lose interest.

    DS and DD go to a chess club. If that club had a logo that said "Where the members' moves are guided by God", it isn't a club that would have been of interest to our family. It immediately injects religion into something that need not have religion injected into it. It doesn't bother me a bit if 90% of the members of the club are Christian (or Jewish, or Muslim, or...), but it would surely bother me if religion were so important to the club that it was the focal point of their slogan. Am I "offended" by the fact that the slogan is religious? No. But it surely lets me know from the get-go that it's not a club I'd be interested in attending meetings of.
     
  30. Donita

    Donita Well-Known Member

    QUOTE
    I've read it as the "chosen" part being offensive, but the "religious" part being unwelcoming such that those who aren't religious would lose interest.
    This is exactly how I've read it too. Most are not offended by the religious aspect of the slogan, they just wouldn't join.
     
  31. momof5

    momof5 Well-Known Member

    I was thinking more of couples who can't have babies no matter what fertility they try. Would it make them feel like God didn't chose them for parenting at all? It kind of implies (to ME anyway) that if you don't have multiples God didn't chose you because you are just not good enough. There are a lot of parents out there way better than me and they don't have multiples. I hope that makes sense. Yes, I thank God everyday for my kids, especially my twins because of the severity of their TTTS but I know He didn't chose me because I'm better than someone else because I'm NOT.
     
  32. niftywriter

    niftywriter Well-Known Member

    QUOTE(Donita @ Apr 6 2008, 12:03 PM) [snapback]707661[/snapback]
    This is exactly how I've read it too. Most are not offended by the religious aspect of the slogan, they just wouldn't join.



    Exactly! I couldn't care less what they want their slogan to say...like Ellen pointed out, it is actually helpful to know up front what kind of people are in a group....but the actual mention of "God" doesn't offend me. Actually it offends me more that when people point out the exclusionary nature of such slogans some people always say it's because "God" offends. Come off it...God doesn't offend. Insensitive, exclusionary people offend!
     
  33. Boni

    Boni Well-Known Member

    I have read enough posts here to know that such a statement would definitly offend someone.
     
  34. Donita

    Donita Well-Known Member

    QUOTE(Nifty @ Apr 6 2008, 01:27 PM) [snapback]707748[/snapback]
    Exactly! I couldn't care less what they want their slogan to say...like Ellen pointed out, it is actually helpful to know up front what kind of people are in a group....but the actual mention of "God" doesn't offend me. Actually it offends me more that when people point out the exclusionary nature of such slogans some people always say it's because "God" offends. Come off it...God doesn't offend. Insensitive, exclusionary people offend!
    That's exactly it Renee. It isn't GOD or Jesus that are offensive, it is the people and the attitudes that some people have.
     
  35. twin_trip_mommy

    twin_trip_mommy Well-Known Member

    QUOTE(debid @ Apr 4 2008, 08:57 AM) [snapback]704428[/snapback]
    Our local chapter of POTATO has exactly the same message in bold print at the top of their application. I wondered the very same thing when I read it and dismissed it as just another sign that we live in the Bible Belt.

    LOVE the name of that organization.

    ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
    I guess I can see where that logo would cause some to not want to join that group. If one is a non believer then they may not want to join a group that could be filled with beleivers (members who do not have the same thoughts on life as you).

    I can see how it could hurt the feelings of those who may have lost a multiple. If the person is a believer then they may still be questioning "Why did God choose for this to happen to me" But, if they are not a believer then honestly I don't understand how this would hurt or offend them.
     
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