Do you think this will offend people?

QUOTE(caba @ Apr 4 2008, 11:46 PM) [snapback]705638[/snapback]
Brandy, you have just given me another example of why "your" God sounds like such a **** to me... I wasn't "chosen" to be a mother. I had to have those wonderful scientist get me knocked up! Can I get a hallelujah for science??

Erica



Erica you are too much!!! Yay for Science!!!!

This is exactly why I can't discuss religion with christian people. They always seem to get so offended when someone is not christian and push their beliefs upon everyone else. I believe in something but definitely not christianity, more existentialism, but I'm not offended when someone feels the need to preach to me. It's so judgemental and hurtful. I am so surprised at how many aethiest/non christians are on this board. It's actually quite refreshing to see the diversity.

 

QUOTE(cajuntwinmom @ Apr 8 2008, 11:46 AM) [snapback]711279[/snapback]
Erica you are too much!!! Yay for Science!!!!

This is exactly why I can't discuss religion with christian people. They always seem to get so offended when someone is not christian and push their beliefs upon everyone else. I believe in something but definitely not christianity, more existentialism, but I'm not offended when someone feels the need to preach to me. It's so judgemental and hurtful. I am so surprised at how many aethiest/non christians are on this board. It's actually quite refreshing to see the diversity.


It surprises me to think that people view those who share their faith as judgmental. If someone I knew truly believed in something that gave them purpose for their life, a hope for the future, and brought joy to them and their family, I would be upset if they didn't tell me about it. I'm not referring to those who push and demand. I'm talking about honestly sharing something that means that much to them. At least, after I heard about it, I would be able to make an informed decision about whether to accept it or not. If I truly believe something this wonderful, what type of person would I be if I horded it away and didn't share with others?

You'd be surprised how many people I speak to who honestly have no idea what it is that born-again Christians actually believe. They make assumptions based on how we are portrayed or on how someone who claimed to be a Christian once treated them. In fact, my DH, who grew up in a family that, if asked, would say they were Christians, had no idea what being a Christian really meant until I shared my faith with him. He thought that he knew (go to church, be a good person, etc.) but really had no idea.

I don't share my faith because I am judgmental. In fact, I share my faith for the exact opposite reason. I believe that everyone (including me) are sinners and that Christ offers us forgiveness and freedom from that. I in no way believe that I am better than someone who isn't a Christian. I believe that He died for every one of us. I tell people because I care. Not because I want to hurt them.

 

QUOTE(cajuntwinmom @ Apr 8 2008, 10:46 AM) [snapback]711279[/snapback]
This is exactly why I can't discuss religion with christian people. They always seem to get so offended when someone is not christian and push their beliefs upon everyone else. I believe in something but definitely not christianity, more existentialism, but I'm not offended when someone feels the need to preach to me. It's so judgemental and hurtful. I am so surprised at how many aethiest/non christians are on this board. It's actually quite refreshing to see the diversity.


I think its hard to talk about beliefs/religion period!! It's a very polarizing issue. Always has been and probably always will be. Just look at all the wars that have been battled over religious beliefs.

Ironically, I think the same can be said about people who don't believe in any higher power. I have found over the years with atheist friends, acquaintances that the issue of others believing in God bothers them to some degree. They spend more time, energy than you think addressing something that that don't believe even exists. I have had non-believers try to "push their beliefs" on me Which is fine, I enjoy being challenged and learning about other's point of views. I am secure with my beliefs in God (BTW..I'm Catholic) but have never felt the need to be a missionary and try to persuade others to believe.

Yet, I do become offended when people who don't believe somehow make it seem like its an oxymoron to be an "intelligent Christian". The TV personality Bill Maher is the king of this. He cannot see how any "intellectual" could believe in a God. So it really works both ways. It just comes with the territory of the subject matter. I think deep down everyone wants to somehow be "right" in what they believe.

 

QUOTE(Stacy A. @ Apr 8 2008, 11:52 AM) [snapback]711433[/snapback]
I believe that everyone (including me) are sinners and that Christ offers us forgiveness and freedom from that. I in no way believe that I am better than someone who isn't a Christian.


If it helps you, that is probably the problem people are having. As an atheist, I do not think I am sinful; I do not believe in sin as a concept (since belief in God is necessary for belief in sin). I appreciate that you feel filled with spirit and love and want to share that, and I am happy for you that you have this light in you and that you want to share it, but I just don't operate from the assumption that people are all inherently "bad" and "falling short." Does everyone fall short of the best they can be sometimes? Yes. I just do not believe humans are inherently bad and this is a real turn-off for me personally when people I know IRL try to share their religious joy with me. This is not because I (I am not like Bill Maher, I pretty much can't stand that guy) think *I* am better, it's just because I think that most people are mostly good. To start by saying everyone is bad just rubs me the wrong way.

I am not really trying to start anything--it's irresolvable anyway, since people are coming from such different places that it's almost impossible to truly understand the opposite point of view--I am just trying to pinpoint *why* some people are offended when you are doing what to you is a wonderful thing.

 

QUOTE(rubyturquoise @ Apr 8 2008, 01:19 PM) [snapback]711490[/snapback]
If it helps you, that is probably the problem people are having. As an atheist, I do not think I am sinful; I do not believe in sin as a concept (since belief in God is necessary for belief in sin). I appreciate that you feel filled with spirit and love and want to share that, and I am happy for you that you have this light in you and that you want to share it, but I just don't operate from the assumption that people are all inherently "bad" and "falling short." Does everyone fall short of the best they can be sometimes? Yes. I just do not believe humans are inherently bad and this is a real turn-off for me personally when people I know IRL try to share their religious joy with me. This is not because I (I am not like Bill Maher, I pretty much can't stand that guy) think *I* am better, it's just because I think that most people are mostly good. To start by saying everyone is bad just rubs me the wrong way.

I am not really trying to start anything--it's irresolvable anyway, since people are coming from such different places that it's almost impossible to truly understand the opposite point of view--I am just trying to pinpoint *why* some people are offended when you are doing what to you is a wonderful thing.


I agree that we have different beliefs. While I wouldn't hesitate to tell you about mine, I wouldn't insist that you believe the same thing as me. How could I? If someone "believed" it just because I said to that wouldn't do anyone much good. However, I don't believe that I am being judgmental in sharing my belief. The point I was trying to make is that, since I do believe that everyone is in the same boat as sinners, I am not being judgmental and looking down on anyone else. I don't think I am better. I think we are equal in this. I just wanted people to see a different perspective. That, perhaps, Christians are sharing their faith out of love and not judgment.

 

QUOTE(Stacy A. @ Apr 8 2008, 12:25 PM) [snapback]711506[/snapback]
I agree that we have different beliefs. While I wouldn't hesitate to tell you about mine, I wouldn't insist that you believe the same thing as me. How could I? If someone "believed" it just because I said to that wouldn't do anyone much good. However, I don't believe that I am being judgmental in sharing my belief. The point I was trying to make is that, since I do believe that everyone is in the same boat as sinners, I am not being judgmental and looking down on anyone else. I don't think I am better. I think we are equal in this. I just wanted people to see a different perspective. That, perhaps, Christians are sharing their faith out of love and not judgment.


I believe you, and I agree with you. I don't think you are being judgemental. I just think that sometimes it might *sound* judgemental to people who don't spend as much time reading religious threads in the Corn as I do to say "everyone is a sinner." I believe you do not mean it in a judgemental light, but in a humble one. It may not come across that way, though, and this may be where the idea that Christians are judgemental is coming from.

 

QUOTE(rubyturquoise @ Apr 8 2008, 10:19 AM) [snapback]711490[/snapback]
it's just because I think that most people are mostly good. To start by saying everyone is bad just rubs me the wrong way.


I agree completely. I would add that if I do something bad that is contrary to my inherently good nature, my beliefs (or lack thereof) don't allow for Jesus to give me a get out of jail free card. If I do something bad, I don't get to go to confession and let him take it all away for me. I have to deal with it myself and with whomever I may have hurt. I think it requires a lot of introspection to come to terms with one's own failing, and the thought that I would be forgiven simply because I have accepted Christ rubs me the wrong way.

It's just strange to me to think that everyone is a sinner, but it's okay because Jesus died for us. No, I think everyone is generally good, but when we do something wrong, it's not okay and we have to be responsible for our wrongs without reliance on Jesus.

I know we're way, way off topic here, and I'm probably taking us even further off topic. But, as usual when I think I'm going to try to stay out of a debate, I felt compelled to type away!

 

I would just like to say that for those of you who think people are generally "good". . . I would like to prove otherwise by letting you enjoy an afternoon with my 2 year old

 

QUOTE(caba @ Apr 8 2008, 10:52 AM) [snapback]711137[/snapback]
OMG! Can I tell you how silly I feel???? I should re-read what I write after I post it ... hehe.

Erica

Oh Erica, it was such a cute typo, though. It really made me giggle.

QUOTE(Debb-i @ Apr 8 2008, 12:56 PM) [snapback]711440[/snapback]
Yet, I do become offended when people who don't believe somehow make it seem like its an oxymoron to be an "intelligent Christian". The TV personality Bill Maher is the king of this. He cannot see how any "intellectual" could believe in a God.
This is one of my biggest pet peeves. I consider myself an intelligent person. I love science. I love the quest for knowledge. Yet I am also a Christian. The problem is some people believe science and religion to be at odds with one another. I have never felt this way. I'm not going to delve into it all, since it is way OT, but one can be an intelligent being and still believe in God. They are not mutually exclusive.

QUOTE(SoBlessed @ Apr 8 2008, 03:39 PM) [snapback]711862[/snapback]
I would just like to say that for those of you who think people are generally "good". . . I would like to prove otherwise by letting you enjoy an afternoon with my 2 year old
:lol:

 

QUOTE(SoBlessed @ Apr 8 2008, 12:39 PM) [snapback]711862[/snapback]
I would just like to say that for those of you who think people are generally "good". . . I would like to prove otherwise by letting you enjoy an afternoon with my 2 year old


:rotflmbo:

 

:clapping: MamaKim!!!!!!!!

 

QUOTE(SoBlessed @ Apr 8 2008, 03:39 PM) [snapback]711862[/snapback]
I would just like to say that for those of you who think people are generally "good". . . I would like to prove otherwise by letting you enjoy an afternoon with my 2 year old


HA! That definitely made me laugh at the end of this long day!!!!

 

QUOTE(BridgePort @ Apr 8 2008, 01:41 PM) [snapback]711693[/snapback]
I agree completely. I would add that if I do something bad that is contrary to my inherently good nature, my beliefs (or lack thereof) don't allow for Jesus to give me a get out of jail free card. If I do something bad, I don't get to go to confession and let him take it all away for me. I have to deal with it myself and with whomever I may have hurt. I think it requires a lot of introspection to come to terms with one's own failing, and the thought that I would be forgiven simply because I have accepted Christ rubs me the wrong way.

It's just strange to me to think that everyone is a sinner, but it's okay because Jesus died for us. No, I think everyone is generally good, but when we do something wrong, it's not okay and we have to be responsible for our wrongs without reliance on Jesus.

I know we're way, way off topic here, and I'm probably taking us even further off topic. But, as usual when I think I'm going to try to stay out of a debate, I felt compelled to type away!

I agree with you in part here. It is not as cut and dry as this "allow for Jesus to give me a get out of jail free card" . Yes, I am forgiven if I ask but I am also required to "deal with it" and ask the person I hurt to forgive me. Back 20 years ago I had a hard time understanding the how and why and accepting that Christ is just forgiving me of my personal sins. Once I accepted this free gift a light came into my life. It is not a free pass to just go around and hurt people because I am still accountable for my actions I still need to be kind and ask forgivness (of the person and now Christ) I just have Him to help me get through now.

EDITED TO ADD: I do not go to confession either. I know He knows what I have done and He knows my heart. I talk directly to Him.

 

QUOTE(twin_trip_mommy @ Apr 8 2008, 02:23 PM) [snapback]712127[/snapback]
I agree with you in part here. It is not as cut and dry as this "allow for Jesus to give me a get out of jail free card" . Yes, I am forgiven if I ask but I am also required to "deal with it" and ask the person I hurt to forgive me. Back 20 years ago I had a hard time understanding the how and why and accepting that Christ is just forgiving me of my personal sins. Once I accepted this free gift a light came into my life. It is not a free pass to just go around and hurt people because I am still accountable for my actions I still need to be kind and ask forgivness (of the person and now Christ) I just have Him to help me get through now.

EDITED TO ADD: I do not go to confession either. I know He knows what I have done and He knows my heart. I talk directly to Him.


That makes more sense to me...thanks for sharing your perspective!

 

QUOTE(cajuntwinmom @ Apr 8 2008, 10:46 AM) [snapback]711279[/snapback]
Erica you are too much!!! Yay for Science!!!!

This is exactly why I can't discuss religion with christian people. They always seem to get so offended when someone is not christian and push their beliefs upon everyone else. I believe in something but definitely not christianity, more existentialism, but I'm not offended when someone feels the need to preach to me. It's so judgemental and hurtful. I am so surprised at how many aethiest/non christians are on this board. It's actually quite refreshing to see the diversity.

Not all of us are like that. You should join us in the Corn. Most in there don't believe that way.

 

QUOTE(twin_trip_mommy @ Apr 8 2008, 05:23 PM) [snapback]712127[/snapback]
I agree with you in part here. It is not as cut and dry as this "allow for Jesus to give me a get out of jail free card" . Yes, I am forgiven if I ask but I am also required to "deal with it" and ask the person I hurt to forgive me. Back 20 years ago I had a hard time understanding the how and why and accepting that Christ is just forgiving me of my personal sins. Once I accepted this free gift a light came into my life. It is not a free pass to just go around and hurt people because I am still accountable for my actions I still need to be kind and ask forgivness (of the person and now Christ) I just have Him to help me get through now.

EDITED TO ADD: I do not go to confession either. I know He knows what I have done and He knows my heart. I talk directly to Him.


I agree completely. Thank you for stating it so clearly and simply. It would have taken me several paragraphs to do so!

 

QUOTE(Stacy A. @ Apr 8 2008, 04:52 PM) [snapback]711433[/snapback]
It surprises me to think that people view those who share their faith as judgmental. If someone I knew truly believed in something that gave them purpose for their life, a hope for the future, and brought joy to them and their family, I would be upset if they didn't tell me about it. I'm not referring to those who push and demand. I'm talking about honestly sharing something that means that much to them. At least, after I heard about it, I would be able to make an informed decision about whether to accept it or not. If I truly believe something this wonderful, what type of person would I be if I horded it away and didn't share with others?

You'd be surprised how many people I speak to who honestly have no idea what it is that born-again Christians actually believe. They make assumptions based on how we are portrayed or on how someone who claimed to be a Christian once treated them. In fact, my DH, who grew up in a family that, if asked, would say they were Christians, had no idea what being a Christian really meant until I shared my faith with him. He thought that he knew (go to church, be a good person, etc.) but really had no idea.

I don't share my faith because I am judgmental. In fact, I share my faith for the exact opposite reason. I believe that everyone (including me) are sinners and that Christ offers us forgiveness and freedom from that. I in no way believe that I am better than someone who isn't a Christian. I believe that He died for every one of us. I tell people because I care. Not because I want to hurt them.


I apologize if you took that personally. I just know that many people at work know that I am not a christian. However, I do not consider myself an agnostic as I am very spiritual, I just don't believe in the christian God. I have found that most, yes most, Christians that I have personally come in contact with look at me as if I have two heads or a third eye. I have even had someone in front of me say that in time I will realize the truth. I have one co-worker who is convinced I believe in witchcraft and Wicca and all that. Maybe it's because I live in the South and most people here are christians and those who aren't at least claim to be. I have met some very devout christians whom I admire their faith and truly act in the name of christianity. I just can't get past those that don't and all the hatred, fighting and conflict that ALL organized religion creates. People are too easily offended when one doesn't believe in their faith. The wars that have been started because of religion never end. Even churches have seperated because of arguments of faith. Instead of accepting eachother and our differences, it often causes rifts between people and whole societies. I am in no way against christianity or christians. What I don't like are people who claim to be christian who judge me for who I am and what I believe.

 

QUOTE(BridgePort @ Apr 8 2008, 06:41 PM) [snapback]711693[/snapback]
I agree completely. I would add that if I do something bad that is contrary to my inherently good nature, my beliefs (or lack thereof) don't allow for Jesus to give me a get out of jail free card. If I do something bad, I don't get to go to confession and let him take it all away for me. I have to deal with it myself and with whomever I may have hurt. I think it requires a lot of introspection to come to terms with one's own failing, and the thought that I would be forgiven simply because I have accepted Christ rubs me the wrong way.

It's just strange to me to think that everyone is a sinner, but it's okay because Jesus died for us. No, I think everyone is generally good, but when we do something wrong, it's not okay and we have to be responsible for our wrongs without reliance on Jesus.

I know we're way, way off topic here, and I'm probably taking us even further off topic. But, as usual when I think I'm going to try to stay out of a debate, I felt compelled to type away!


Okay, so I have to disagree. I honestly used to think that people are inherently good, but I think about survival instinct and instinct in general. Now, I think that people are good and society provides us with morals and values as well as norms to keep social order. I also believe in deontological philosophy because think about in terms of speeding. Speeding is against the law....most of us don't usually speed (that much) because of the consequences. You may speed a few mph over the speed limit because you know the chances of a cop stopping you are minimal, but you won't speed 50 mph over the speed limit because you could get arrested, lose your license or even worse, lose your life. Now don't get stuck on this one train of thought and try to say that I am saying that people are not good. I believe people are good and that evil is really the minority, but to say that human nature is inherently good is false. Think about the Donner party. They had to kill members of their own to stay alive. When it comes to survival instinct which are really a basic instinct, humans, animals, whatever will do what it takes to stay alive and selfishness then comes into play.

I think outright evil is a learned behavior, a product of an environment if you will. But I also know that selfishness is an instinct. We've all had toddlers or have toddlers right? I know we've all heard "THAT'S MINE!!!!" That's not learned....it's part of development.

Let me finish with I think humans are good in general. We sacrifice, love and care for eachother for the most part, but inherently we are programmed to survive and take care of our own first even if it involved selfish acts and acts that include possible murder, which is considered taboo in most societies.