Hello, new here...would love suggestions

Hi there, lurker finally coming out of the closet....I know the (not) sleeping topic has been done to death, but I would still welcome any advice or tips from the been-there-done-that moms!

I am a FTM of 13.5 month surprise fraternal twin boys, Bridwell and Tyler - I say surprise because DH and I are older and weren't really planning on having kids....oops! LOL

Anyway, like every other twin mom in the free world, I am having issues with their sleep, or rather, their non-sleep. DH and I are going nuts. I'm certain that we are doing something wrong in addition to the boys' general "stuff" like teething (kill me now) and developmental milestones (kill me again, for good this time), but I am not sure what. We both work fulltime and have tweaked our schedule/their routine 3,968 times already to try and elicit a full night's sleep from the kids, but it is just not working out. Last night Tyler slept a whopping 8 hours....he is already in the 5th percentiles for growth, and IMO the chronic lack of sleep is partly to blame.

A review of our routine and any suggestions would be GREATLY appreciated. This has been a very difficult year for us in many ways, and the sleep deprivation (theirs AND ours) is snowballing into other parts of our lives and making things worse.

Daytime:

Note: DH takes kids to daycare, since it is by his work. He has to be at work by 7am, so ideally we would wake up at 5:15, DH would take care of dogs and get ready for work while I do some general prep work and get partially ready for work. Then I would get them up at 6 and have them diapered and dressed to leave by 6:20.

What ACTUALLY happens is:

Tyler wakes at 4:30, begins to wail. DH or I get up to attempt to soothe him back to sleep. Our getting up wakes the dogs downstairs, who start to bark for breakfast. Barking now wakes Tyler fully (he hears it even through a closed door and sound machine). Tyler cries. Go in room to get him out of crib & bring him into our bed for possibly 30 min more sleep. Crying + barking + activity in baby room wakes Brid. Get Brid, bring him to bed. Both boys fall asleep. Alarm sounds 15 minutes later, wakes both boys up. We also now have to get up and start our day, but boys will NOT go back to sleep in their cribs as long as they know we are up, and they will NOT play in their rooms. If I gate them in their room with toys and stuff, they will stand at the gate and scream until they puke. So, I let them come into the bathroom with me and spend the next half-hour monitoring/chasing them around while I wash my face/brush my teeth and then getting them dressed while DH showers and dresses. I am already exhausted by the time they leave, and it's not even 6:30 a.m. Since I have not done half of what I need to do to get ready, I am also late to work.

Nighttime:

I leave work at 4 and am home by 4:45 to make dinner and get evening stuff done/prepped. DH gets home with kids between 5:45 and 6pm. We play a little bit, then they eat dinner at 6:15. Finish at 6:45, let them play a bit while we clean up, they go up for a bath at 7:00. PJs, a couple of stories, then in the cribs by 7:30. We recently began putting them to bed awake - a few rough nights, but they are settling into it now...we might have to lay them back down once or twice over the next 15 minutes, but for the most part they fall asleep quickly.

However, they do not STAY asleep. They wake anywhere from 2-8 times per night. Sometimes one, sometimes both. They do not self-soothe, ever. We have tried loveys, binkys, sippys (water), patting, shushing, rubbing, quick cuddle, CIO, you name it. Nothing works - they wake up, they stand up in the crib and SCREAM. Ignoring them makes them scream harder. Sitting in the room with them but not touching them enrages them. Anything that is in the crib with them, they throw on the floor and then scream because it's out of reach.

Tyler is somewhat responsive to CIO - he will fall asleep after the 10 min check, but it involves moving him to a pnp in another room (which IMO does nothing to teach him how to sleep in his own bed) and it is not a permanent fix - wash rinse repeat with the next teething or development cycle.

Brid will scream/cry for hours....he cries until he barfs and then cries some more, so CIO is useless with him. He responds to the lay down/"goodnight"/leave tactic, but will only sleep about 30 min -1 hour between each episode.

In the meantime, both kids are feeding off each others' crying - the whole "they will learn to sleep through it" theory is bunk for these guys. They sleep so lightly and are so attuned to each other that they wake each other up at the drop of a dime.

Naps at both home and daycare are dicey. Brid will usually go down around 9:30 am without a fuss and sleep until 11. Tyler is hit or miss. we/daycare have tried one nap for him, but he won't go down awake/without being held, and might only sleep 45 minutes. Brid is fine with an afternoon nap between 1-2, but only sleeps an hour. Tyler, again, hit or miss. This kid just does not sleep!


As you can imagine, this is taking a serious toll on DH, me, and our daycare person. We cannot get to work on time, we cannot function at our jobs (I have already been passed over for a promotion thanks to kid-related tiredness and performance issues), we cannot plan or schedule anything, we cannot have any quality time or even a normal relationship. (Did I mention that we live 8 hours away from the nearest relative and can't find anyone willing to babysit for us? We haven't been out without kids since they were born.) Our daycare person is having trouble coordinating her day with her other kids thanks to my two and I swear she wants to give us the boot because of it.


If you got this far in my novel, thank you....and please, please.....help. I am desperate. What am I doing wrong?

 

I don't think you guys are doing anything wrong at all! :hug: It sounds to me like your kids are in a classic overtired spiral - they're so tired that they're having trouble falling asleep & staying asleep. Have you read Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child? He explains very clearly how less sleep=less sleep & more sleep=more sleep.

A couple of thoughts:

- for all intents & purposes, it sounds like the boys are waking between 4:30am - 5:00am, more or less for the day. Not going down till 9:30am for their first nap is a looong awake stretch for a 13.5 month old. Some toddlers that age can do a 5 hour awake stretch, but it's more common for them to be only able to handle about 3 - 4 hours tops. Does your daycare provider put them down for naps based on the clock or based on their sleepy signs? You may find to help reset their sleep cycle you may need to nap them based entirely on their sleepy signs for a little while - they may even go back to 3 naps a day temporarily while they "catch up".

- once they're a little more rested, you can work on some of the other things like getting them to take longer naps (45 minutes is classic "nap intruder" length. It's the aprox length of one sleep cycle & is rarely enough to refresh a toddler for their next awake cycle). You'll want to try & encourage them to extend their nap into a 2nd sleep cycle. Again, HSHHC has some good tips on this.

- you may find it helpful to go with a really early bedtime for a while. Is it possible for the daycare provider to give the boys dinner before your husband picks them up? Then you can start their bedtime routine as soon as you get home with aiming to have them in bed by 6:30pm or so. I know that sucks because it means you have very little time with them during the week, but it wouldn't be forever & if it helps with the sleep issues, it may be worth it.

- have you thought about hiring a sleep consultant? We worked with one when our girls were very young & it was the best investment we ever made. We worked with a gal out of BC over phone & email & it was worth every penny. Her name is Dawnn Whittaker & you can check out her website here: Cheeky Chops Consulting

- last, but not least, I know reading anything probably makes you want to scream at this point, but the other book I found really helpful for sleep time issues was Elizabeth Pantley's No Cry Sleep Solution (she has two - one for babies/toddlers & one for toddlers/preschoolers). You could probably read either one & find them helpful as your boys are right in the middle age wise.

I hope that you are able to start finding some solutions to help. Sleep deprivation is the worst! :hug:

 

I probably could have written a similar post when my boys were about that age although my guys were waking once a night. A few suggestions. I think they should go to bed earlier, try 12 hours before you want them up. If you want them to wake at 6, try putting them to bed at 6. You'd be surprised at how much difference that can make.

I think I would go for hard core CIO at this point, no check and console, I mean not going in at all, and just letting them scream. Mainly for your own sanity. I wouldn't go in, and I wouldn't worry about waking the dogs or the other twin. Get some ear plugs and a noise machine for yourself :laughing:.

I think at this point they are so sleep deprived that it is messing up their sleep cycle. There's also a pretty good chance they only need one nap, too. The two naps or two attempted naps might be messing them up. Those are my thoughts for now, not that you should take anything I say seriously, since my boys didn't STTN until 13 months, and even then it was sporadic.

 

Wow, first of all, I want to give you a "hug", I know you need one. Welcome to twinstuff, I hope you like posting here also, not only reading stuff. I wish I had a magic solution to tell you but since my twins are younger than yours, I doubt I can help you that much. If anyone with older kids has a solution I would really want to know it because I need it also .

I feel as if you describe my twins when you describe how they throw stuff out of their cribs and then they cry cause they are out of reach . I am lucky though that at least my son Max is a good sleeper, but we have huge sleep issues with Vanessa, we always had, and now with teething it is getting worse. I really don't know what to suggest that you didn't already do - it sounds like in theory you are doing things right...

One thing that seems to help my twins sleep longer is if they are eating well before going to bed. We used to give them a bottle before bed and then they were sleeping and their sleep was interrupted, they would always wake up during the night. Since we gave up bottles few weeks ago after they turned one, we are giving them a snack and a sippy cup of milk before taking them up for bath at 7,30. They split a slice of bread with cottage cheese and a yogurt or other snack and then some milk, then they take their bath and after that Max is going down without issues, we just kiss him good night, put him down and leave. With Vanessa it's hit and miss. At times - rarely she sleeps like that also, but most nights she cries and wakes him up also and most times I give up and take her with me in bed, I am reading her some books, then tell her a story or two in complete darkness and she falls asleep in our bed with me, then I move her back to her crib. At times she's asleep in 10 minutes, at times it takes an hour... so yeah, as you see I am in no position to give you advise since I am not doing a good job myself with her, but I keep telling myself it's just a stage, I am blaming it on teething... and I keep hoping at some point she will start sleeping better again. In the last 2 weeks she has 4 teeth that are showing on top but none of them came out yet, so I keep hoping it's related to that and I hope that after those teeth come out she will get better... but I doubt it.

Anyway, we did notice that since they are eating more before going to bed they are sleeping better after they are asleep. So maybe you can try that, give them a snack before taking them up for their bath at 7, even if they just ate dinner at 6.

Good luck! I wish I was more helpful!

 

Like the others, it sounds like they are way overtired. My first thought when reading your post is that they are not sleeping enough at night. If they are need to be up by 6am, then they may need to go to bed earlier than 7:30. Have you tried an earlier bedtime? Even 30 minutes can make a huge difference.

Another thought - do you have their room DARK? I don't just mean blinds or even room darkening shades. Our sleeping situation finally turned around for us when we completely covered our boys' window with cardboard so that it is now pitch dark in there.

Have you tried playing music? I know you mentioned noise, but what about soothing music that repeats?

Is separating for sleep an option? I know you are wanting them to sleep in their own beds, but at this point, I would let them sleep wherever they will and you can transition back to their bed later.

And finally, with regards to the dogs waking them up, can your dogs go somewhere at night that that won't be a problem? (I have to pen our dogs up during naps, for example, or they wake our boys every time). If not, what about some anti-bark measures, like the anti-bark collars?

 

Hi and welcome. Sorry things have been so hard, and I hope some of our pointers will help. My boys are the same age as yours. I realize some of these you may have tried already, but thought I would share what works for us.

For waking time, once the boys were past the age of needing to eat first thing upon waking, we set a time in the morning (6:30am for us) that we would not get them out of bed before that time. There have been a few exceptions, when out of town or a couple of incidents of a baby screaming and getting very upset at 6:15 or so, but these are rare and we haven't had this happen in months now. Our babies wake and often start babbling or shouting out, sometimes one trying to wake the other, but they do not cry anymore. They know they will be in their room for a little while when they wake before someone comes in to them. I should add that our time used to be 6:30am, and in the last couple of months it has become 7am because they just sleep later now. It also helps us to be able to shower and get ready for work a little before getting them out of bed.

Our boys still have two naps a day and they need them. Occasionally they will skip a nap, but if that happens they will be very tired and need to go to bed early. Our first nap usually begins around 9:30am. Our second nap around 2pm. We have followed most of the suggestions in Healthy Sleep Habits Happy Child for naps. We sometimes rock to sleep, but sometimes it's just rocking until very calm and tired (probably 5-10 mins. each on average). They nap in their cribs, and if they don't go to sleep or if they wake within 30 minutes, then we don't go in to them until they have been in their room for one hour. They rarely cry. If they skip the nap they usually are talking and laughing in there. Occassionally one of them will scream or cry out, but that almost always means he has a poopy diaper.

Our bedtime is 7pm. It used to be 7:30pm, but we could tell our boys were tired before then, so we decided to try 7 temporarily and it worked out so well for them that we stuck with it. This means they are in their pajamas and doing our bedtime routine (books, rocking, etc.) by 6:45 and they are in their crib by 7. If they skip a nap, then we try to get them down by 6:30.

If they wake in the night and scream or cry out, then we will go in to them once. We try to soothe without picking up, give them the paci, rub tummy or bottom, say comforting words and leave the room. They almost always cry as we walk out of the room but it's over within a minute or two. I will admit that occasionally I will pick up a baby and rock for a couple of minutes if he wakes in the night and is upset and crying. At this point they usually wake from dreams, I think. And the waking in the night is rare. It happens less than once a week and almost always while DH and I are still up, so I wonder if they may hear our voices or the TV or something and that disturbs them. They have a very dark room and we play nature sounds - usually waterfall or rain or ocean sounds.

I would aim for 12 hours a night and two naps. I think I would start with an earlier bedtime first. I would try either extinction or going into them only one time if they cry at night, and I wouldn't go in to them at naptime. They will figure it out. I know it's stressful but keep telling yourself that you are teaching them how to sleep well. Also, if you are trying a new routine, I would be consistent and give it a couple of weeks. That seems like the amount of time it always took for our boys to adjust when we were changing things up.

 

Here is another thing to consider - have you thought of getting a nanny to come to your home instead of taking them to day care? Is this an option for you? Maybe this will allow them to sleep a little later in the morning, gives you and your husband more time to get ready for work, you won't have to get your twins dressed and ready to leave the house so early. For us, the cost of the nanny is actually cheaper than the cost of two infants in day care and I am so grateful not to have to get them ready too and bundle them up to go out in bad weather in winter.

 

Thank you all for the replies. I agree 100% that they are overtired. It is what to DO about it that has me stuck in the hole.

I'll clear up a couple of points:

I don't know what to do about an earlier bedtime. I agree they could use it. But....DH can't get them home earlier than 5:45 - his job requirements and travel time just don't allow it. If I went to pick them up after work, they wouldn't get home until 5:45 anyway due to same, plus dinner wouldn't be made. I can certainly ask our daycare person about giving them dinner, but my guess is the answer will be the big fat "no". She has custody of her 2yo grandson, and they have a family dinner routine for AFTER my kids leave for the day. My boys eat big people food meals (we did a version of baby-led weaning, they haven't had puree/jar food in 4 months), so having dinner at her place would mean 1) we prepare a separate meal and send it with in the a.m., 2) she prepares a separate meal from what she is making for her family, or 3) she moves her family dinnertime up an hour.

They go to bed with full bellies....these guys eat like horses. Dinner is whatever we are eating, plus milk sippy, plus fruit and maybe a graham cracker. Oh, and water...they drink at least half a sippy after toothbrushing. If how much food they pack down now is indicative of the teen years, we are going to have to take out a 2nd mortgage to pay for groceries.


We have blackout shades, a white noise machine, a fan, the works in their room. I did read here earlier about taping cardboard over the windows....this is on my agenda for the weekend. I'm sure my HOA will love it, but whatever! They don't like soothing music - we used to rock them to sleep via spa/meditation tunes, but random chords in the songs would jolt them awake.

Our dogs are downstairs, but there are no interior doors downstairs to block them off. All barking travels up our cathedral staircase and into the hall where their door is. Bark collar? Well....for the ones that emit sound....3 of our dogs are deaf. For the shock collars.....3 of them are 14 years old, I don't know if I want to do that to them at this point!

Naps: they do snooze in the car on the way to/from daycare, so that's a 20 minute catnap 2x day as well. They used to keep napping after arriving at daycare, but they outgrew their infant carriers and now DH can't get them out of the carseat without waking them....and of course they get excited about seeing their daycare buddies so going back to sleep again is a no go.


I will look into HSHHC....have not tried that one yet. Right now we are doing a modified Sleep Lady Shuffle, but that seems to be busting since they just get madder if they know we are in the room but not holding them.


I am also blaming teeth for some of it - they didn't cut their first ones until 10 months, but the teeth are snowballing with all their other phase things. Even a preventative dose of baby Advil before bed doesn't help (or orajel, or teething tablets, or washrag, or amber necklace, or any other teething remedy, for that matter).



It is a catch-22......IMO our work schedules are causing some/most/all of these problems, but we can't quit our jobs or change the schedule. I already skip lunch so I can leave early to get home stuff done, and it still isn't panning out. DH's boss is annoyed because he isn't working the 12+ hour days like he used to pre-twins, and gives him holy hannah for arriving late or leaving early because of kid issues. We are beyond frustrated, and I am consumed with guilt every time I look at my poor tired babies because I feel so stuck in this bad situation.

 

You know, we thought about an in-home nanny before they were born, but eventually dismissed the idea. The really quality ones were a bit more expensive than the in-home daycare rates we were seeing, plus a nanny would have to also attend to our 4 stupid dogs during the day (high maintenance pugs).

I just might revisit this option, though. Getting them to/from daycare is certainly half our battle. Can't hurt to check.

 

I agree, definately overtired. By the way, you are a great writer, I feel like I am right there with you! Keep posting! opcorn:

 

So with your statements above, I am taking it that you did not have two colossal fit-throwers? The turn-purple, shrieking, coughing, gagging, vomiting-up-supper kind? Or did you have this and just let them hang out in that state for a couple of hours?

I am not against CIO and don't mind some squalling. I have some trouble with 1+ hours of solid screaming, though, which is what we get when they feel ignored.

 

My boys would cry, but no, I wouldn't say it was colossal - no vomiting and not too much screaming. I can only remember a few times of actually letting them cry in the night/evening (not bedtime but for night wakings) when they couldn't be easily soothed back to sleep. It was usually my son, Leo, and we would end up in a cycle that he would sleep in our arms, but cry as soon as we laid him down in the crib. Fortunately the longest we let him cry (and it wasn't a screaming fit, honestly, just crying) was just under an hour. I think he eventually fell asleep because he was so tired. I realize this isn't the same as your situation, but just thought I'd share what things were working for my sons who are the same age. We used Healthy Sleep Habits Happy Child a lot as our guide and I would have been prepared, not happy but willing, to try CIO for a longer time if it were needed.

Naps have been more of a struggle for us and we've let them cry at naptime with no checking or consoling and it took about 10 days before they stopped crying at naptime, and they either slept or just babbled and laughed and played. I think once they learned that we weren't coming in, then they started adjusting but it took some time and we had to be consistent. We do only leave them in there awake for one hour at naptime. After that they can get up and play.

 

This is sortof how my Tyler is.....if he is really obviously tired, he'll sob like his little heart is breaking for a while as we do the checks, but then wear himself out. (I don't think he's learning from the experience though, since we've done CIO with him on multiple occasions now.) But if he isn't all that tired? Oof. The whole neighborhood can hear him rage, I'm sure.

And Brid.....oh my Lord. I cannot believe that one 22 lb being can carry on in such a manner for such a long period of time. He throws bona-fide FITS. Oh, does he have a temper when he doesn't get what he wants.

From the sound of it, I may be able to take a hard-line CIO stance with Ty, but I'm not sure about Brid. He has staying power.

 

Your one son sleeps well in the PNP? IF so, might it be possible to make his crib more like the PNP? Is the PNP mattress softer or harder? Does it have something in it (animals, blankets) that his crib doesn't? Is it possible that something completely wacky, like an air duct, is pointing at his crib that is impacting his sleep - maybe relocate the crib to where the PNP is?

Also, hopefully here is some encouragement. Today, I talked with a grandmother of twins and she told me of the horror stories of her granddaughters' sleep. Apparently, they woke many times at night and refused to nap. Supposedly, they tried it all - CIO, working with parent educators, etc. - and nothing worked. While that part may not sound reassuring, what is reassuring is that these girls are now 3 and they seem to have settled into some sort of a night time sleep routine. They still don't nap. How this issue came up was today our parent educator was commenting on how, despite everyone's early worries, the girls seem to have not suffered from their lack of sleep. They aren't hyperactive, they're healthy, and they're bright kids. I think what she was trying to tell us was (and something I am still working on internalizing) sleep may not happen like we want it to, but kids survive even in unusual situations.

So, I know you are worried about them being under the curve or whatever, and sleep deprivation really takes a toll on us parents, but hang in there. Based upon what I learned today, it will pass... in time.

 

I think others have given some great advice. I'd definitely second buying the HSHHC book, it helped me understand the sleep cycle a lot, and when you get that it's easier to figure out what might work for you.

I had a couple of thoughts to add:

I'd reconsider having a daytime nanny. To me it's worth something to have a more settled routine and it might have a positive effect on your employers as well. It sounds like your current daycare provider is frustrated too.. is she willing to work with you to turn things around? If not, then I would say that you need to find someone who can help you figure things out.

As for dinner time, could you have something in the crock pot, or have something prepared for the kids to microwave when you get home? This takes a bit of planning, but it might pay off if you can try an earlier bedtime. This would also be another reason to consider a daytime nanny; most nannies around here will have something simple prepared for dinner!

We struggle with the dog barks as well, and I crate my dogs when it's quiet time. Can you invest in a crate in the short term to deal with the barking? In the short term getting your sleep routines under control is a priority, the dogs might have to tough it out for a few weeks .

Whatever you choose to do, stick with it consistently for at least 2 weeks before you start to tweak things. Kids have an amazing way of finding the loopholes in any new system and they need to get used to a routine, so you need to be consistent for a while.

And most of all, remember to breathe! Teething is the devil and there's so much going on in those little brains, but it will all pass. You can totally get through this, you just need to have a plan and stick to it!

 

I rocked my girls till they were 2 and carried them to bed and patted till they slept. My jessy was too fragile too put thru CIO, she needed/needs every calorie. She is still on the underweigh side. Both of my girls are pukers they got that honestly from their mom. Once we moved out of cribs we really did more cosleeping than anything else. Being only one of me it was so much easier to lay down and us all go to sleep. We didn't really break that till 5. I still go in and read and lay with jessy till she is a sleep. Jazz falls a sleep on her own. I got lucky in that neither girl has ever woken the other up.

 

First of all a big hug for the whole overtired stressed family!

I agree that gettign them out of the overtired-cycle should have the first priority even it may mean creating a few routines you are not happy with long term. I would focus on getting everyone back to decent amounts of sleep and then - when everyone is relaxed and rested - work towards the "ideal" routine.

I second the No Cry Sleep books, there is also one for naps. There are lots of ideas and I liked the explanation of sleep cycles too.

I would also suggest you consider some form of co-sleeping. If you are getting up several times during the night and end up taking them into your bed in the early morning I would revisit whether it might work to put them to sleep in their cribs and let them join you in your bed when they wake up at night. I would also think about napping together with them on the weekends - you get some much-needed additional rest and you have a much better chance of soothing them back to sleep when they change into the second sleep cycle if you are right there and catch it before they are fully awake. Once you have them used to napping longer you will probably not have to stay with them for the whole nap. This also has the additional benefit of some additional time with mom or dad for the babies, making up for time and closeness they miss during the day: It sounds like you do not really have a lot of time together due to work requirements, commutes etc. and some babies and children have a harder time with that than others (Please do not mistake this for criticism - juggling work and babies is just hard on the whole family and we all need to deal with it the best we can while paying the bills).

 

I agree that a nanny at home might make your day less stressful. I also work fulltime and opted for a nanny rather than taking them to day care. I get ready for work when she arrives just after 7h00. We are going through the 2 naps to 1 nap transition and having a nanny means that she can adapt the nap routing if necessary. I have a DS that still needs 2 naps some days and a DD that only needs 1 nap.

Know that you are not alone with the sleep issues. I still have some nights where DS does not sleep through. My twins are the same age as yours. I hope that you will soon have more sleep.

 

They don't sleep better in either of our pnps. Tyler will eventually fall asleep in one after CIO, but he does that out of futility only. Brid has never gone to sleep in either one. I've tried, but it always ends up with me picking him up and him falling asleep on me due to the extended frantic screaming. Honestly, I think they *like* their room and their beds, they just like being with mom and dad more. :\

I'm glad you mentioned that about the 3yos doing well. Though on the small side and cranky here and there due to teeth issues, both boys are very happy, cheery, affectionate little guys that are hitting their milestones right on target. A lack of consistent sleep doesn't seem to be affecting them too much, at least during the day. I may just have to accept that I have horrible sleepers....that take after dear old mom, who also can't sleep well for anything. :sigh

 

We do crockpot meals sometimes...those are definitely nice. Quick/microwaveable meals? Well, they eat waaaaaay more hotdogs and mac & cheese than I like anyway, and guess what I fed them one desperate night last week? MANWICH. That's right, my 13 month old babies ate Manwiches. Even though they loved it, I feel like I pretty much hit bedrock of epic parenting fail with that one. It's hard to make things that fit all the "good" criteria when you only have 20-30 minutes to both prep and cook it!


I am hesistant about crating the dogs, honestly. Not because I am against crating, but because these are all rescue adoptees with issues. One was kept crated for all but one total hour a day, and his back leg muscles atrophied from disuse. Our youngest pug was a puppy mill breeder....born into the mill, and kept in a tiny cage with 6 other pugs for the first 4 years of her life. (The mill was closed and all dogs seized, just to give you an idea of the conditions.) Anyway, there is a LOT of negative association with confinement for them. I know that sounds like a flimsy excuse, but I just don't think I'd have the heart to do that to them.

 

Oh man, I feel so bad for you. Our twin boys are 17 months and we have been through many sleep battles also, but none nearly as bad as yours We finally broke down and did CIO too. My Noah is the one who has the staying power and he gives in finally after 45 mins, which seems like an eternity when they are crying. Depending on sickness/teething/any disruption in our schedule, it seems like we have to re-do CIO every 2 months or so. I hate every minute of it and would much rather rock, but most nights my husband doesn't get home until after they are in bed and I just don't have the time to rock for 1 1/2 hrs every night (I also work FT and have a 4 year old boy). I'm not sure I would whole-heartedly recommend this but have you tried co-sleeping? Our 1st one woke up a lot at night and my husband and I both had the attitude of "we'll do whatever to get sleep". Although, if you have ever slept with a child, you know that they move constantly in their sleep also and you will often get kicked in the face so I'm not sure how far ahead we were in the end. Also, my 4 year old still wakes up (now to go to the bathroom) and wants in our bed. We just recently got him convinced to go to his "fort" on the floor next to me when he wakes up. We have tried not to co-sleep with the twins mainly because there isn't enough room in our queen bed and don't really want to start that with them also (I drew the line when one night we had all 3 in there and the only ones sleeping were the kids lol). BUT, if I was as desperate for sleep as you seem to be, maybe it is worth a try?? I wish I had more advice as I always said that I could handle whatever was thrown at me during the day if I had enough sleep but the days I don't, definitely take a toll on my husband and I.
I also second the nanny in the home, we have 2-3 days a week where someone comes in instead of going to daycare and those days definitely go smoother. The only complaint is that they seem to get bored faster for us on the weekend since they are always in the same enviroment. I hope you figure something out soon so your days can run smoother and your sanity can be returned!!

 

Although I was not a fan of co-sleeping/bed-sharing(and still am not), we have brought them into bed with us out of total desperation on many occasions. If we ALL got some precious sleep that way I would be reluctantly open to it as a permanent solution....but we don't. They sleep, but fitfully - twitching, kicking, can't get comfortable. I don't sleep at all. I lie there with my eyes closed, feeling every movement, hearing every grunt and snuffle, wondering if they are too hot/can't breathe/etc. DH can doze a little bit, but he doesn't do a deep sleep either.

Napping with them during the day would be great....if they would nap at the same time, or if DH was always around to handle the other one. He teaches a class on Saturdays and is gone 8am-3pm (whooooole other story, I won't get started on that one). I love to nap with them when I can, and enjoy the snuggles - you are right, I do not get a lot of time with them during the week, and that is tough to accept. Unfortunately there are also things like laundry and errands and whatnot that also have to be addressed on the weekend....this stuff doesn't magically do itself, and I often find that naptime is the only opportunity for me to do some of it. I put off what I can in favor of quality time with them, but I can't put off everything and I can't put it off forever.

I wholeheartedly admit that I am having a very, very difficult time with work/life/domestic balance right now - that may turn into a whole other vent thread in itself. It is painful to realize that no matter what I do or how I juggle, someone is losing out somewhere. That is so hard.

 

Oh, and to all who mentioned the nanny.....I do like this idea more and more and think this would be the best solution given our job restraints. Hopefully there is some wonderful qualified person out there who will work for cheap. I love the idea of not having to wake them up at dark-thirty and bundle them up to go to daycare, even though they may not love hanging around the house all day. Lack of socialization would be a real downside (they love going to daycare and playing with the other kids) but maybe a good nanny would have ways around that.

Thank you all so much for your input! It is nice to know that others out there have gone/are going through the same thing and it isn't necessarily me making a mountain out of a molehill, which is the way it feels sometimes...I often wonder if I'm unconsciously making this too hard, so it is reassuring to hear that raising two IS hard and it's not all in my mind.

 

I know how hard it is, but forgive yourself first for not being able to be everything to everyone. And also realize that any sacrifices that anyone makes are short term. If you can get on a good sleep schedule your life will feel a thousand times easier, I promise. Not that every day is sunshine and roses with toddlers, but at least you'll have the rest to deal with it. Just take charge!

 

A good nanny shouldn't be in the house all day, every day. She should get the kids out to parks, libraries, & whatever activities you designate (zoo pass, etc).

 

How does that work re: transportation and carseats and such? Sorry, I am clueless in this arena. And will a nanny be able to do these things by herself? I know some classes and programs require one adult for each child.

I see you are in Denver.....any suggestions for activities? We are in Thornton outskirts....we find that even getting TO an activity (like the zoo or a park) ends up overlapping with scheduled mealtimes, nap, whatever. And that is with both DH and me involved.

 

I'm a SAHM- but I did look briefly into having a nanny. I'm not sure how the transport works- obviously she'd need something with carseats- maybe her car with your seats as you won't need them probably until the weekend? Someone else should be able to shed some light on that, though.

I found it pretty difficult when they were on 2 naps (napping at the same time) to get out as well- I'd get everything they needed ready between nap 1 & nap 2 and plan to be gone about an hour. I started slowly by going to Target or a local park. For socialization (according to a PhD in special ed/early childhood development that I know) it doesn't matter exactly what you do, as long as it's in public and there are interactions with the world. She was really happy when her nanny took her son to the 16th street mall just to look at everything in his stroller.

Then when they dropped 1 nap (about 14 months) I could do a lot more with zoo trips or Little Monkey Bizness, etc. Some tthings you have to be 1:1, like baby swim class, but others, like the story times are fine to bring 2 kids too. (Ok, a bit of a challenge, but definitely doable!) You'll be surprised how quickly they can do more stuff in the 2nd year- by 20 months we could go to a lot of different places with just me to help them along.

 

I know it is hard to not to, but try to stop beating yourself up about everything (we all do it, it is just easier to tell someone else not to). You are doing the best job you can with the resources you are given! Raising twins is HARD and unless you have done it yourself, you don't completely understand. I try to think of my friend who just had triplets (plus she has a 2 year old) who is trying to work full-time when I have a hard day and think "it could be worse so take a deep breath and tomorrow is a new day". MUCH harder said than done but like you said, your boys are healthy, happy, and well adjusted so you are doing a great job! This too shall pass and in 10 years, we will look back and think, when did our boys grow up!!

 

I think the doctors forget to mention that with twins you also get the Supermom guilt x 2.


And I am in serious awe of parents of higher-order multiples. I am dying with just two... am not sure how they do it. And thank God I will not be finding out.

 

Our nanny takes our sons out for long walks every day, weather permitting, and during most of those walks they go to the park. She doesn't have a car, but I would feel comfortable with her taking them out using public transportation if there was another activity she wanted to try. She hasn't taken them to any classes so far, we have done that ourselves on the weekends, but I would feel comfortable with her doing that if it were something like the library or a playgroup that didn't require an adult to be hands on with one of them the whole time.

On the weekends we try to do as many activities as possible outside the house, even if it's trips to Target or the grocery store, going for a bike ride, visiting friends, swimming, going out to lunch, that way they aren't in the house most of the day (like during the week) and are getting a chance to socialize, see, and do new things. Timing is of course an issue, because of meals and naps, but we have beein doing a lot more lunches outside the home. We take milk in sippy cups and either take lunch or pick something up while we're out. The best times to go out with our boys is usually right after the first nap, or right after lunch and before their second nap. We can also sometimes fit in a walk or quick activity before dinner, and a couple of times have even gone out for a half hour or so after dinner.

 

We have a nanny and we LOVE her, but it took us forever to find her. I can PM you with the saga if you're interested.

Your nanny should be able to care for both twins and ideally have twin infant experience.

With the carseats, when she arrives, I install the bases in her car from my car and I take them out at the end of the day. I admit, it took me a while to be comfortable with her driving the kids around and I set strict rules. Low radio volume, no cell phone or texting while driving for any reason, keep the carseats in side so they don't get hot or cover the seats with a towel when the seats must stay in the car.

We give her money for everything she does with the twins, but there are some things we don't allow her to do alone. No places with pools or water unless my mom/grandma goes with her. Keep the kids as far away from parking lots and streets as possible. No crowded public places (malls, etc) unless the girls are in a stroller.

 

I'm not entirely sure of the details but there's a nanny who brings her charges to our MOMs playgroup on Monday mornings. She has the twins plus one older boy & brings them all by herself. She drives a van that has car seats in it - I'm just not sure if it's her van or the family's van that she uses for the day. Or you could look for a playgroup in your neighbourhood (do you have neighbourhood associations? I found a great playgroup through our NA) that the nanny could walk to with a stroller.

I've had a babysitter take my girls places on public transit - half the time the ride on the bus is the highlight of the trip! :laughing:

There are many, many opportunities for socializing with a nanny. And I expect if you find someone with some experience under their belt, they'll have lots of ideas of things to do & see as well. :good:

 

You've gotten great advice. Reading posts like this, where you describe "trying everything," I often think that's part of the problem. Consistency is key in kids and sleep, so as you cycle through lots of different options, you confuse them and you and you end up teaching them the lesson that they need to cry more. We had a tough period with our son right around two that was similar to this. We had done CIO at 7 months and had great success, but then we had a regression. We went in at first, tried talking to him and resolving issues, but he would not sleep or stay asleep at all. He was exhausted, with sad red eyes from lack of sleep, and spiraling into a worse and worse situation. Ultimately, we left the room and let him figure it out. He did. It was a rough first night, but it got better from there and my happy little boy was back. For us, that was the best solution for everyone, resulting in the least crying for him (one night vs every night). I'm a working mom too. Survival hinges on routine and consistency. You need to figure out what you want your routine to be and stick with it no matter what. I'd also second a really early bedtime for awhile. Mine were in bed before 7 at that age, sleeping 12 hours a night and taking a 3-4 hour nap. Everyone in your house is exhausted right now.

 

You've gotten lots of great advice! I agree that a nanny sounds like it could be ideal for you and getting sleep back on track. My MIL watches my twins for us at our house and its so nice not having to worry about getting the boys up and out the door in the morning. I know that their routine won't be disrupted, which is key.

For getting sleep back on track, I would watch for sleep signals and follow the 2-3-4 routine. 2 hours after they first wake up, they should go down for their first nap, 3 hours after their wake up from their first nap, they should go down for their second nap, and 4 hours after they wake up from their second nap, they should go to bed for the night. We have these in their cribs and I love them. I turn them on when its time to sleep and its definitely a huge sleep cue for them. Now, my bad sleeper is starting to turn it on himself in the middle of the night and it will settle him down.

:hug: for you and your twins! I have one twin who still doesn't sleep through the night, so I totally get the sleep deprivation!

 

The other bonus with a nanny is that I think often they do a little light house keeping, which would help out for giving you less errands to do on weekends. My SIL and a few friends were nannies. They didn't do full house keeping, but did the childrens' laundry, made dinner, and sometimes ran errands like picking up drycleaning while out with the kids.

As for the sleep issue, you've gotten lots of good advice. Consistency has been the key for all of my kids. Some aren't great sleepers. My oldest didn't sleep through the night until she was 15 mo old. But I was also a SAHM, so could nap while she did during the day once in awhile. With my twins, we didn't have an extra room, but ended up moving one crib into the living room. They just didn't sleep well together. One napped well but slept fitfully at night. The other only napped if she was laying on me, but would sleep through the night. And if one was up, they woke the other. Separating them helped immensely. We even kept them separate for awhile when we moved to our new home, but ended up putting them back together around 2 years old.