Here we go again....

I know you have read a topic about this before but please read through my post and give me your input on my situation. In the next 2 weeks I have to decide if I want my girls together or apart for first grade. They attend a small catholic school and they go to half day kindergarten. They do well socially and academically. I was going to get their teacher's thoughts but she had her baby 4 weeks early (UNEXPECTED!) and is not returning this school year. There are only 14 kids in their class and the aide who has been with them all year and will now be taking over recommends splitting them up. When I asked her why she said because she is from the old school (she is in her 60's) and believes ALL twins should be split. I don't want an opinion or a recommendation based on ALL twins. I want good factual reasons based on MY twins! I know I will request they be together in second grade because they will make 2 sacraments in second grade and it will be much easier if they are in the same homeroom. I honestly want them together until third grade but I REALLY need and want to hear what you did, how it worked for you and why you think I should keep them together or split them apart. Thanks so much!!!!

 

My girls were apart for preschool and have been together for Kindergarten. Today was our parent teacher conferences and the teacher told me that she sees no reason why the girls should be apart next year. So if your girls are doing good with it now then I would continue to keep them together. I know that for us it has been really nice having them do the same things at school and especially for times when parents are invited to the class.

 

We're not there yet but my feeling is that if their being together is not posing a problem for either of them then leave them together. If the case was that one is dependent on the other or overshadowed then yes by all means separate them. But if they're both doing good and socialize independently than do whatever is easier for you and whatever you feel comfortable with.

 

The problem with keeping them together, is many times you don't know how dependant one is on the other until they are apart. I think the longer you wait, the harder it will be. My two have been separated since preschool, and they thrive in their environments. It allows my one child to shine his own star, rather than being in the shadow of a brother who was a fluent reader at 4, and already knows all his addition, subtraction, and 1/2 of his multiplication facts.

 

I agree with Sharon that if you know they will be separated eventually, it will likely only get harder the longer you wait.

My boys got separated this year, for kindergarten. IMO, it was a good move. It took them a couple weeks to fully adjust, but now they enjoy it. And I like that they are being judged on their own merits and not being seen as one child.

 

A year ago, I would have told you I wanted mine to be together. Lu is shyer, and would just sort of "ball up" around other people without her sister there. (They were 4.)

However, after having them spend some time in the library reading program and taking gymnastics classes, I now actually want them separated. Lu is doing much better around other people now, and O is a dominant personality. I worry that if they are together, Lu will not have a chance to shine for herself. Also, they are talented in different ways, and I do not want one compared unfavorably to the other by the teacher.

Mine have a late birthday, and won't start K until they are a little past 5.5, if that makes any difference.

eta: clarity

 

Here is the advice I got when I sought advice from a local friend who has twins older than mine and who works in the school my girls are in. She said that she wished she had separated her girls earlier than they were. Some of the reason why they weren't separated was because there weren't two classes one year, and several times she requested they be together. She said based on the personalities of the twins, they didn't need to be together. And recommended that knowing my girls they wouldn't need to be together and it would be easier to do it now rather than later.

If you have kids who are very independent (BOTH) and are willing to separate from each other during class time, then she said she saw no problem with keeping them together, but as PP's said, why not separate now rather than later. She aslo strongly recommended that if the kids were at all dependent upon each other (even if its just one) that separating is a good thing, it helps teach independence and allows each child to grow and shine in their own space.

One thing that helped me make my decision was that I talked with one of the teachers (we had 2 brand new teachers and one first time in 1st grade) and they were all three going to be using the same curriculum, homework etc. I wouldn't have to deal with different homework, projects, etc. What I have discovered is that I have one who now excels in reading (at way above a 2nd grade level) and one that excels at math (she can do it in her head). For us separating them for first grade was scary for me and at first for them, but has been great, both have grown incredibly over the past 6 months. FWIW, they were together for two years of preschool and kindergarten.

 

I wish I could help. I don't know what I will do in the future, I guess it depends on their personalities and needs at the time. We will be in preschool for the first time this coming fall, and they will be in the same class. I have observed them in our family ed class once a week and they completely ignore each other...but as the years go on it will be the issue mentioned above- will there be separate attention from teachers, etc?

I am concerned that in the future it will be impossible to keep up with different curriculums, projects, visits, social schedules, etc. But I guess that's the hazard of having more than one kid!

 

I had always thought I wanted my boys together until they actually started approaching K age. They were always together in preschool. But as K approached, I realized as identical twins it would be nice for them to have some "apart" time. They were starting to get really annoyed at people not being able to tell them apart and such. It was wonderful in K for them to each have their own classroom and their own teacher. No one within that setting ever got them mixed up with their brother or asked, "Which one are you?" We really saw them blossom individually during this time and it was so fun at the end of the day to hear them sharing their stories about their days. We had it particularly nice because they had adjoining classrooms so they could see each other periodically throughout the day, and they shared recess/lunch times and also had PE together. (We specifically requested classrooms like this.) In addition, we felt it was the perfect "transition time" for individual classrooms when they started "big" school. (Ironically, now in middle school we have them placed on the same team and this is also working out fabulously!) As Amy said too, they did have an adjustment period, but it wasn't long and they were enjoying the freedom from constantly being mistaken for each other and of making their own friends, etc. It was a win-win situation for them!

 

QUOTE
Here is the advice I got when I sought advice from a local friend who has twins older than mine and who works in the school my girls are in. She said that she wished she had separated her girls earlier than they were.


I have never heard anyone say "I should have separated them later." BUT I have heard many people say "I should have done it sooner".

As for the different homework thing--if they were 12 months apart, you would be dealing with 2 different sets of work, and wouldn't think twice about it.

 

QUOTE(sharongl @ Feb 15 2008, 05:22 PM) [snapback]623961[/snapback]
I have never heard anyone say "I should have separated them later." BUT I have heard many people say "I should have done it sooner".



Hmmm... But I've heard people say "I wish I hadn't separated them".

My vote goes to keeping them together unless there's a compelling reason to separate them (overdependence, or one being a much better student than the other). My kids are in fifth grade now and still happily -- but not dysfunctionally -- in the same class.

If you know that they'll be together for second grade, I would think that given no reason to separate, flipping back and forth seems strange.

There hasn't been much research done on the subject, but the research that has been done shows that twins who are kept together fare better emotionally than those who are separated, and academically the ones who fare worst are those who are separated in first or second grade (rather than starting and staying together, or starting separately).

 

QUOTE
There hasn't been much research done on the subject, but the research that has been done shows that twins who are kept together fare better academically and emotionally than those who are separated.


From personal experience, I would have to disagree with this. My MIL was an ID twin (I say was because her sister passed away in their late 20's). She tells me how they were forced to stay together, dress alike--the whole 9 yards. At the time she thought it was great. And then her sister died. Even though she was already married, she had an extremely hard time dealing with it--it is only since the boys were born, that she has really started talking about her sister. She will NEVER send them identical clothes--and she sends them a lot of clothes! She was the dependent twin, and no one realized how dependent she was, including herself until her sister was gone. She made me promise to never force the relationship on my boys that she had.

As for my boys: Jon was reading fluently at age 4--we found out he could read when he was reading Curious George to himself in bed. He knows all his addition and subtraction facts, some multiplication facts, can tell time, find elapsed time, etc, etc--and he is still only 5 1/2. Until Marcus started K, he did not read, would not do math beyond 2+2. If you asked him a question, he would say "ask my brother, he knows". Now, because they are in separate classes, and he doesn't have to compare himself to his brother--not a fair comparison at all--Jon is just WAY above the curve, Marcus has come into his own! And other than writing numerals--he tends to write many of them backwards--their report cards are the same.

I say this not to show how well Jon is doing, but to point out the differences in my boys, and show how one can be under the shadow of the other without ever realizing it. Marcus held himself back, not because he couldn't do what Jon was, but because he felt he didn't need to, because his brother already could.

 

QUOTE(sharongl @ Feb 15 2008, 08:57 PM) [snapback]624159[/snapback]
As for my boys: Jon was reading fluently at age 4--we found out he could read when he was reading Curious George to himself in bed. He knows all his addition and subtraction facts, some multiplication facts, can tell time, find elapsed time, etc, etc--and he is still only 5 1/2. Until Marcus started K, he did not read, would not do math beyond 2+2. If you asked him a question, he would say "ask my brother, he knows". Now, because they are in separate classes, and he doesn't have to compare himself to his brother--not a fair comparison at all--Jon is just WAY above the curve, Marcus has come into his own! And other than writing numerals--he tends to write many of them backwards--their report cards are the same.


Sharon, I think I qualified the portion that was my own opinion by saying that if there were large academic differences, I would separate. And I'm also a strong opponent of dressing twins alike (don't get me started...).

Obviously not every set of twins is going to fit the averages found in the study. However, given a parent whose children have been together for kindergarten, and whose gut isn't telling them much one way or the other, the study results would indicate that statistically, the kids are less likely to experience problems if they're left together.

 

If my girls had differences in academics and/or social skills, I would not hesitate to split them up. I think that's why this is such a hard decision. Despite only having 12 other kids in their class, they have different friends and testing has shown they are about the same academically, too. They have such differences that they don't overshadow one another. I can't tell you how much I appreciate all of your input. I have read every single one and seriously thought about each answer. Please keep them coming.

 

I have struggled with this for years. I had to fight the public school preschool to keep them together.. They were not ready emotionally to be separated. They have done well together and the teacher has noticed that it has not been a problem. They will play separately and every once in a while will make sure the other one is around. They need that assurance.

Next year they start Kindergarten. If they go to private school, they will be together, we have no choice. If they go to public, the decision is mine. They vehemently do not want to be separated. They will break down and beg me to keep them together. However, Connor has been going through a real "grumpy" stage and I am wondering if he needs to be on his own for a while. I think this summer I might put them in day camp for a few days but in separate groups to see how it goes. That might help me decide what to do. I have lost sleep, cried and prayed about this for months. It is so hard to know what the right thing is. Every twin group is different, there should not be an arbitrary policy separating all twins, since they are distinctly different. I guess I just don't know my boys well enough to make an educated decision!!

 

Put me in the camp of people who was determined to keep my boys together and lived to regret it terribly.

I wonder if we, as parents, sometimes just prefer to see our twins settled as the "set" that we know and love. We are all ready to criticize others for not seeing our children as individuals, but the fact is that I do believe many of us unwittingly do the same thing more often than we think.

As Sharon and Renee pointed out, with more than one child separate schedules and homework are the norm anyway. It's not a lot to ask of parents to handle two children's homework needs of an evening! MOst people do it every night and think nothing of it. As for religious considerations, I had five children make their way through Catholic school and we did the Second grade sacraments four times. I have to tell you that I felt badly for my twins who, even on the wonderful First Communion Day were not able to enjoy the individual spotlight. But everyone thought the "double" pictures were charming. Even classmates' parents wanted to get photos of their offspring standing between the twin "bookends". If I had my time back I would so prefer to have let them experience all of these events as individuals and to enjoy being in the spotlight alone for a change, even if it was inconvenient for me!

Look, studies about emotional reporting are notoriously unreliable (and I would love to know specifics about these so-called studies which "prove one way or the other). People whose twins face problems as time goes on think that "if only" they had kept them together these problems would not have happened. I would like to suggest that perhaps those problems would have been worse. But they'll never know, luckily.

 

Excellent post, Renée!

I know if I'm being honest with myself, I wanted my boys together because *I* personally could not stand the thought of them being separated. But was it really what was best for them? No! They thrived having that individual time to themselves. Again, I also think if your twins are identical as mine are, then this becomes a completely different issue. Mine were honestly tired of no one being able to tell them apart and of always being lumped together as twins. I knew for them we had to try the separation and we are so happy we did. It was the best decision we could ever have made for them. Why should they be together just because they are twins? When I really stop and think about it, it makes more sense to me to separate them. But every family makes that decision for themselves. Either way, I don't think anyone is doing any lasting damage emotionally or academically to their children by separating them or keeping them together. Kids are very resliient and adaptable, much more so than we as parents are!

As for the homework issue, it was never a problem for us. At our school the curriculum is standardized so they generally had the same homework anyway, especially in K-3. And having three children, it was a given that all their homework would be somewhat differnt anyway. No biggie. Parents learn to deal with that just as we learn to deal with everything else, lol! Besides, my kids did their homework, not me.

 

Homework would have been a bit more of an issue for us had the kids wanted to be separated: there are a couple of years in our school where one teacher for a particular grade doesn't assign homework, and the other teacher does. I shudder to think of dealing with one 8-year-old who has 45 minutes of homework, while another never has any. (Clearly this is obviously NOT a reason for them to be together, but surely a benefit of them being in the same class).

The abstract for the most extensive study that has been done (about 1000 sets participated) is here:

http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/aap/...000002/art00002

The full study is here:

http://www.teds-environment.com/Tully.pdf

The emotional/behavior issues noted were responded to by the teachers, not the parents.

I'll repeat what I wrote above, lest someone think I'm saying that the studies "prove" anything. I think I was pretty clear that this is based on the averages, which of course means that your mileage may vary, and obviously in many cases it does.

I said:

"Obviously not every set of twins is going to fit the averages found in the study. However, given a parent whose children have been together for kindergarten, and whose gut isn't telling them much one way or the other, the study results would indicate that statistically, the kids are less likely to experience problems if they're left together."

I didn't mean to cause any defensiveness; a question that I spent quite a bit of mental energy on myself was asked, and I noted that no one had referenced the Tully study, so I did. If someone had referenced a study showing that keeping twins together caused problems, I would surely still be secure in the knowledge that what I did for MY twins was what was best for them, rather than attacking the work that someone spent years compiling for the benefit of people like us. I'm still a great believe that parents know best, but when parents are baffled, it's good to have information like this available.

 

QUOTE(BGTwins97 @ Feb 16 2008, 12:10 PM) [snapback]624770[/snapback]
Homework would have been a bit more of an issue for us had the kids wanted to be separated: there are a couple of years in our school where one teacher for a particular grade doesn't assign homework, and the other teacher does. I shudder to think of dealing with one 8-year-old who has 45 minutes of homework, while another never has any. (Clearly this is obviously NOT a reason for them to be together, but surely a benefit of them being in the same class).

The abstract for the most extensive study that has been done (about 1000 sets participated) is here:

http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/aap/...000002/art00002

The full study is here:

http://www.teds-environment.com/Tully.pdf

The emotional/behavior issues noted were responded to by the teachers, not the parents.

I'll repeat what I wrote above, lest someone think I'm saying that the studies "prove" anything. I think I was pretty clear that this is based on the averages, which of course means that your mileage may vary, and obviously in many cases it does.

I said:

"Obviously not every set of twins is going to fit the averages found in the study. However, given a parent whose children have been together for kindergarten, and whose gut isn't telling them much one way or the other, the study results would indicate that statistically, the kids are less likely to experience problems if they're left together."

I didn't mean to cause any defensiveness; a question that I spent quite a bit of mental energy on myself was asked, and I noted that no one had referenced the Tully study, so I did. If someone had referenced a study showing that keeping twins together caused problems, I would surely still be secure in the knowledge that what I did for MY twins was what was best for them, rather than attacking the work that someone spent years compiling for the benefit of people like us. I'm still a great believe that parents know best, but when parents are baffled, it's good to have information like this available.



Wow! I wasn't attacking anyone. Let's not get all worked up, please. We're only trying to have a discussion here, and last time I checked, that means all are welcome to post their views and experiences. I posted mine, and I am sorry if my experience and opinion makes you uncomfortable and angry. It certainly wasn't meant to be taken that way.

I think we've all spent quite a lot of mental and emotional energy on every aspect of raising our children. I wasn't questioning your motives nor your point of view, just stating mine. I do think that mentioning unattributed "studies" as proof that one way is better than the other without any references isn't helpful and I am glad you posted the links to the actual study after the fact. Reading these links, I am still not convinced. Sorry, but a teacher's evaluation of children's emotional state is not definitive at all, especially in settings so fraught with unacknowledged secondary factors and prejudices (like twin stereotypes).

I agree with you and everyone else that every parent needs to have the right to try to do what she feels is best for her children. However, I also feel that parents get really upset about this issue because of how it feels emotionally to them, as Kim mentioned (and as I learned). Secondly, every single twin pair that I know of, except one, did very badly when together in classes and would have been overwhelmingly better off separated. It is not only the twins' emotional reactions and needs whicb determines the outcome of the experience. What too many people cannot seem to grasp is that our twins will also be the victims of OTHER PEOPLES" problems and reactions to their presence in the class. And, sorry, but most teachers either refuse to acknowledge that their own reactions may not be ideal or more likely they may be actually unaware of their own negative stereotyping of twins, and usually are unable or unwilling to acknowledge that there may be a group dynamic featuring similar stereotypical beliefs which affects the twins' experience as well.

The bottom line is that teachers have an entire class of children to think about, not just our twins. In cases where twins are together and it isn't working out, the teachers will attribute this to the twins' "problems" rather than the class, as the solution of removal or treatment of two children is much more manageable than a group problem. In the case of separated twins, again, if the twin is not doing well, it is easier for the teacher (and parents) to attribute this to the "loss" of the twin, than to consider underlying problems or other problems in the classroom. My point is, with twins, the focal point becomes their twin relationship and people tend to look no further than that to explain a wide variety of problems. Unfortunately, many twin parents buy into this very same problem with their insistence on treating their twins as a unit (indivisible) rather than as separate individuals. No wonder the entire process is skewed from this perspective from the beginning.

I actually have a teaching degree myself and am in no way suggesting that teachers be scapegoated here. I am only pointing out that, as I said before, in matters of emotion, studies based upon anecdotal evidence and subjective reporting are notoriously unreliable. The opinions of a teacher, a parent , a child or anyone else involved in what is essentially an emotional issue, are all unreliable and subjective. Knowing this, I choose to go with my own subjective and flawed opinion, which is at least as reliable as those in a study such as that one, and my experience has been that placing my boys in the same class was an unmitigated disaster with consequences involving the reactions of others which I simply could not foresee.

Let me be clear. I was more commited than anyone about the importance of keeping my twins together. I was so convinced that "together was best" that I fought hard for it and eventually had to move all of my children to a new school where the staff would accommodate my demand that our twins be allowed to start kindergarten together. I was so determined to have my boys together that I paid a fortune for it to happen (private school) and posted on message boards (including this one) exactly as you have done - citing similar studies, as a matter of fact! :laughing: ardon: So, I am certainly not a person who held the "Separate is best" opinion all along and is now insisting she was right.

I was wrong, dead wrong, and I would venture to say that so is that study. None of these discussions ever seems to take other people and a wider arrray of variables into account; people focus on what they think are the twins' emotional needs and attachment as if they can continue to live in a bubble free of any outside influences. This is the huge hole in the argument for "keep them together".

My bottom line opinion is that there is no right way to handle this issue; that parents may not be the best ones to make the choice, but they probably should have the right to do so since they will inevitably deal with the consequences of whatever choice is made. I do think the opinions and experience of educators (teachers and administrators) should be taken into account, because their years of experience is likely to be more realistic and not biased with the emotional baggage of parental love and expectations. Together or separate can work out just fine depending on the individual children and that is the absolutely rock bottom line. Parents and teachers should discuss it together with the individual children in mind and decide what is best for the children. Unfortunately, I think many parents already have their minds made up before they talk to schools, which means that they do not allow any objective input into their decision. In those cases, I think the outcome is a crapshoot. If they are lucky, it will work out (not because they chose well, but because somehow whatever they insisted on happened to be a good fit for the kids).

That's just my two cents. I wish I had listened to advice like this when I was facing this decision. But I didn't or perhaps I couldn't. I was that sure I was right.

 

I think we're coming from quite different experiential backgrounds, and I'm sure that's coloring our opinions as well. When you say "And, sorry, but most teachers either refuse to acknowledge that their own reactions may not be ideal or more likely they may be actually unaware of their own negative stereotyping of twins, and usually are unable or unwilling to acknowledge that there may be a group dynamic featuring similar stereotypical beliefs which affects the twins' experience as well..." I really, honestly, truly have no idea what you're referring to. It simply doesn't exist in my experience with the kids' teachers.

You also say that "Secondly, every single twin pair that I know of, except one, did very badly when together in classes and would have been overwhelmingly better off separated." This hasn't been the experience at our school at all -- the twins who have been kept together have by far and away been the most successful (the valedictorian and salutatorian at our local high school two years ago were a twin set that were kept together all through elementary school). The two sets of twins who have been separated are struggling. I know that this is likely completely unrelated to their placement, but it does mean that teachers at our school, if anything, automatically have GOOD associations with twins in the same class as opposed to negative ones.

And absolutely, I agree with you that it's important to touch base with the teacher and the kids each year before choosing placement for the following year, and we have made a point of that. I always ask the kids -- when the other isn't around -- whether they would like to be in the same class, and I always touch base with the teacher to make sure that she doesn't see any reason to separate them. Thus far, all of the teachers have supported keeping them together. They are the two top students in their grade and are quite comfortable socially, so it's definitely working out fine for them.

 

I'm really glad it has all worked out so well for you! Sounds like you have an exceptional school there. :drinks:

 

Renée, again I agree with a lot of what you posted. I was also adamant that my boys would be together and I started "arming" myself with all sorts of studies and ammunition prior to K which supported my argument that they be kept together. There was no way I was going to separate them.

But then I started listening to the advice of their preschool teacher who felt they would do well either way, together or separate, but suggested they were getting tired of always being mixed up with their brother and that maybe they would come to enjoy being in separate classes. Then I spoke with the principal and the K teachers at K screening and found out the wonderful options I had of putting them in adjoining classrooms where they would share recess/lunch times, their teachers would allow them to see each other, if necessary, etc. I respected the advice of our principal as well who strongly suggested we separate them for the same reasons as their preschool teacher.

So . . . I started to rethink why I wanted them together and found most of my reasons were for me rather than them. Yes, I worried about separation anxiety between the two of them, but mostly I hated the thought of them being separated. And I felt in many ways it wasn't fair for me to place my wishes above their need to be individuals and to have that special time in the classroom where their teacher and their friends were theirs and theirs alone. (The friend thing didn't last long as they soon came to have many of the same friends and still do.) But they enjoyed having time apart and then reuniting every day.

Also, my boys are quite competitive, as many identicals are, and I didn't want "sibling issues" coming into the classroom. I didn't think it fair to them, their teacher or the other students to have siblings in the classroom and for them all to have to possibly deal with the disruption or situations where this could be a problem. I just felt it healthier all around to allow them the freedom to have their own classrooms and learn to navigate themselves without each other around. For my boys, this was the best decision.

Now looking back, I am thankful I listened to the advice of so many people (my boys included) and separated them. I know it was right for them in their situation. Ironically, now as middle school students together on the same team, they actually are happy to be together. But they needed the time and indepence to mature into this place. I have loved watching them become true friends, not just brothers, in the last year and a half. It has truly been heartwarming to watch!

I honestly think (maybe because this was our experience) identicals do better separate than together. Boy/girl or fraternals may not have the same issues with being confused all the time, which when you are 5 or 6, can be so heartbreaking to deal with on a constant basis. They will always be mixed up in some situations but again it was so nice for them not to have these issues much while at school (unless it was on the playground or something).

 

I completely agree with everything you wrote, Kim. I wish we had had a school like yours. Our experience was the same as yours in pre-school (the teacher said they were happy and not co-dependent, but that they might do better apart because of the reactions of others (confusing them, treating them like a 'unit", etc). We felt they'd do well together or apart. But, I wanted them together because I had read studies like the ones posted which scared me into believing that my poor little twins might be scarred by separation. And I also wanted them together because it was important to me. That's not easy to admit (and I am thankful that Kim is also honest about it! I don't feel so alone! ), but I honestly thought at the time that I was doing what was best for the boys, not myself. Like many mothers, I projected my own feelings onto my children.

Next, the elementary school told us that not only would our little boys be separated (after initially telling us we would have a choice), but that they would not even be in school at the same time! One was placed in a morning class and one in the afternoon! When I tried to talk to the principal about this, I was told that my opinion did not matter and I could take the placements or leave them. So, sadly, we didn't have the luxury of a relationship where there could be a respectful dialogue between ourselves and the school. My husband called her to try to sort it out and she got angry with him and told him to take or leave the spots, they had a waiting list. That cold response is probably what convinced me more than anything (and incorrectly, it turns out) that schools would not care about my children and I would have to fight for their right to be together. Had we been blessed with an intelligent and sensitive principal back then, who had listened to my concerns and made some provision to ease the transition (that school had the ability to do what Kim's school does, but refused to do so for reasons I still cannot fathom), then I think we would have stayed, and we would not have minded the boys being in separate, but adjoining, classes.

I totally agree with Kim's point about ID (monozygotic) twins' experiences perhaps being quite different from B/G twins or fraternal twins who do not look alike. When I referred to all the twin pairs I know who did not thrive in situations where they were in the same class, I meant ID twins. I know of one set of ID girls who did just fine (I grew up with them and went to school with them, and they were actually the pair upon which I based my original conviction that together is best). Ironically, I met them again (separately ) a few years ago. They are both teachers and they both told me without hesitation that they do NOT recommend placing ID twins together in school classrooms either! Although everyone else thought that they had done very well throughout school, they both had issues with it. They love each other and never acted out or anything, but they both wished, fervently, that they had been able to experience school as individuals instead of as "the B twins". We grew up in an era when children did not question the decisions of adults, and in our day the school divided classes by ability...these girls were bright, straight A students, so it was obvious that they would be placed in the top class...together. As I said they had no outward signs of difficulty but they both told me that they would never recommend it to parents today and would not put their own twins, if they had any, in the same classes at school. I must say, it was a relief to be able to talk about it to A and E (my girlhood friends) and to hear some thoughts about how my boys might be feeling. We were, by then, into our third year of the boys being in the same classes, and had known from the middle of the first year that it was a disaster. However, we could not justify moving our other children again to a new school. There comes a time when you have to cut the losses and not add other issues to the ones you are already dealing with. So, instead we try to deal with the issues the twins face on a constant basis and hope for the best.

If I had my time over, I would still have left the original school because of the attitude of the principal, but perhaps we would have gone to a different pubic school.

B/GTwins, perhaps you have no idea what I am talking about because your twins are B/G? I don't know if that is the case (though your name suggests it), but if that is so, then perhaps our experiences are even more disparate than I first thought and, honestly, I don't think we can compare them at all. But I am sincerely glad that your children are having a great school experience.

 

This has been quite interesting. We were together all the way though high school and so were all the twins I knew growing up. Main reason being that there was only one class per grade in our school, to be separated would have ment going to 2 different schools or going to the other side of town since the closest schools to our house are all one class per grade schools. I think we turned out fine.

As a day care teacher I've recomended together and separate for different twins, it all has to do with the personality of the children. A blanket policy never works for anyone.

 

Don't know if I should reply here, as the OP has ID twins and my situation is very different. I have b/g twins. They're both pretty even in personality and dominance, they have their very individual passions, and obviously there have been no problems with people getting them mixed up.

Interestingly, I was in the opposite camp of many of you, before my two started K. I was positive I was going to split them up, from day one. But when I registered them for school last May, the school asked me if I wanted them together or separated -- I hesitated. I had a gut feeling I wanted to keep them together. So, I put off the school for a few weeks and asked their preschool teachers and the preschool director and many other people who knew them if they would be okay in the same K class. I received all positive comments, so I put them together. I am going to consult their K teacher and also their after-school care providers as to how I should proceed for first grade.

 

QUOTE(Kendra @ Feb 16 2008, 07:19 PM) [snapback]625222[/snapback]
This has been quite interesting. We were together all the way though high school and so were all the twins I knew growing up. Main reason being that there was only one class per grade in our school, to be separated would have ment going to 2 different schools or going to the other side of town since the closest schools to our house are all one class per grade schools. I think we turned out fine.

As a day care teacher I've recomended together and separate for different twins, it all has to do with the personality of the children. A blanket policy never works for anyone.


I completely agree!!!


QUOTE(2gherkins @ Feb 16 2008, 07:32 PM) [snapback]625232[/snapback]
Don't know if I should reply here, as the OP has ID twins and my situation is very different. I have b/g twins. They're both pretty even in personality and dominance, they have their very individual passions, and obviously there have been no problems with people getting them mixed up.

Interestingly, I was in the opposite camp of many of you, before my two started K. I was positive I was going to split them up, from day one. But when I registered them for school last May, the school asked me if I wanted them together or separated -- I hesitated. I had a gut feeling I wanted to keep them together. So, I put off the school for a few weeks and asked their preschool teachers and the preschool director and many other people who knew them if they would be okay in the same K class. I received all positive comments, so I put them together. I am going to consult their K teacher and also their after-school care providers as to how I should proceed for first grade.


This sounds like a great plan to me.

 

Renee, yes my twins are b/g, though we also have identical girls in the family (not mine, but close relatives; they're young adults now), and a friend has identicals (now in fourth grade) who I've watched with interest since they're similar in age to my two. The latter, despite being identical, are very, very easy to tell apart as from a young age, they had completely different haircuts, different glasses, and never dressed alike. They started together for the first year or two, were separated for a year, then put back together because that was what worked best for them.

And yes, Kendra, good point: if I lived in the next town over, there would be no choice but to have them in the same class, as that town's elementary school has only one class per grade, and there is no option to send elsewhere. Homeschooling would be the only other option. One family I know moved to our town specifically because they wanted their twins separated, and if they lived in the neighboring town that wouldn't have been an option.

 

Just want to add one more thing, regarding my own situation....
In their last two years at preschool and also now in K, my two have been separated into smaller learning groups (in preschool, they were in physically different rooms for part of the day), so I am not concerned about "separation adjustment," when they are eventually in different classes.

 

QUOTE(Kendra @ Feb 16 2008, 07:19 PM) [snapback]625222[/snapback]
This has been quite interesting. We were together all the way though high school and so were all the twins I knew growing up. Main reason being that there was only one class per grade in our school, to be separated would have ment going to 2 different schools or going to the other side of town since the closest schools to our house are all one class per grade schools. I think we turned out fine.

As a day care teacher I've recomended together and separate for different twins, it all has to do with the personality of the children. A blanket policy never works for anyone.



P.S. I'd like to add that my friends A&E turned out just fine, too! My point was that they were the success story I knew of, and even they said they would not recommend it. I also had two friends who were ID boys. They were mellow, sweet boys outside of school, but they had a very hard time in school. I now see parallels between their experiences and what my own boys are experiencing.

I do think that it should be an individual thing. Some twins will move through school in the same class and do just fine (my friends did, even though they would have preferred not to), but many do not. It's only my opinion, and I repeat that I think every family needs to do what they think will be best for their children.

 

Renee, that is why I brought up my MIL's situation to begin with. Everyone thought they were fine, they thought they were fine, BUT when her sister died, my MIL realized how dependent she was on her sister, and why it was such a bad idea to keep them together all that time. Very similar to your friends, although fortunately your friends didn't have to loose one to realize it.

 

QUOTE(Nifty @ Feb 16 2008, 05:59 PM) [snapback]625095[/snapback]
I completely agree with everything you wrote, Kim. I wish we had had a school like yours. Our experience was the same as yours in pre-school (the teacher said they were happy and not co-dependent, but that they might do better apart because of the reactions of others (confusing them, treating them like a 'unit", etc). We felt they'd do well together or apart. But, I wanted them together because I had read studies like the ones posted which scared me into believing that my poor little twins might be scarred by separation. And I also wanted them together because it was important to me. That's not easy to admit (and I am thankful that Kim is also honest about it! I don't feel so alone! ), but I honestly thought at the time that I was doing what was best for the boys, not myself. Like many mothers, I projected my own feelings onto my children.
Yes, you were not alone, Renée. I fully admit to projecting my feelings onto my children in this case. Another important point to note for my identicals, they wanted to be in separate classes. Even though they had no idea that they would initially have a bit of a time being separated, when asked how they wanted to be placed, they both were insistent they wanted to have their own classrooms.

 

I was talking to mom about this. She said we were "evaluated" (teacher watched up for a couple days) whenever there was a a possibility of being separated. (morning/afternoon K, split 1/2 class, only grade 1 and only grade 2) The teacher didn't see any good reason to split us because we interacted with everyone.

 

This question is starting to hit my radar screen since our boys will start Kindergarten fall '09.

We will likely put our boys in different classrooms. I think they will flourish better independent of each other since one tends to be the leader and the other the follower.

But to be VERY candid, as a parent, it would be more comfortable to me to have them in the same room. The thought of having your best friend...your blood with you is reassuring. (to the child and me the parent) They have the unique situation among students of having someone there for them...no matter what! Didn't everyone have an awkard moment in school? A class bully...whatever. What if you had a family member there to turn to? It really gives a person a leg up. I think that's why it would be more comfortable. But like I said, for us, I think seperating ours is the best case scenerio.

 

I spoke to a lot of teachers at their school and my husband and I decided to keep them together for first grade. We talked to Allie and Ashley and I even asked their pediatrician. There are many reasons for our decision and I know exactly what Kendra means....it has to be a decision based on the children and not just a blanket "twins should be split" or "twins should be together" rule. I am at peace over my decision and I really think it will be best for our girls. I am not doing this because it is easiest for me or because I see Allie and Ash as a "set" and can't bear to see them apart. They do many things without each other. I have done a lot of thinking and researching and have valid reasons for my decsions that are based on what is best for my children, not for me. Thanks to everyone!

 

QUOTE(BGTwins97 @ Feb 16 2008, 06:10 PM) [snapback]624770[/snapback]
Homework would have been a bit more of an issue for us had the kids wanted to be separated: there are a couple of years in our school where one teacher for a particular grade doesn't assign homework, and the other teacher does. I shudder to think of dealing with one 8-year-old who has 45 minutes of homework, while another never has any. (Clearly this is obviously NOT a reason for them to be together, but surely a benefit of them being in the same class).



Ok, say one was in 1st, the other 2nd because one was older....like it is for many kids. Say that second grade teacher does way more homework than the first grade teacher...there are still going to be issues on one having to do more than the other, but you cannot put them in the same class.

Even though our kids are twins, they still need to be their individual person, and not rely on the other twin for support.

April