s/o Palin Lovefest

I don't want to crash the party on the thread of folks who are happy with the McCain pick, but I just have to know, is there anyone out there who is TERRIFIED by this choice?

She has no foreign policy experience, is a staunch conservative, IS A CREATIONIST (and believes it should be taught in the schools), and despite having a son in active duty who could be sent to Iraq at any moment, she "hasn't really focused much on the war in Iraq". Also she's being dogged by scandals in AK having to do with abuse of power. Nice.

Yes, she's a woman, but she's completely against a woman's right to choose. Does McCain really think that Hillary's 18 million will vote for her just because she's got a vagina? I did read a few people in the other thread who seemed to be leaning that way, but I just hope it won't work on a grand scale. That would be the same as voting for McCain b/c he's a man, or Obama because he's black.

Anyway, I'm just hoping to see a couple people out there who don't agree with this choice. Anyone? Bueller??

 

I would never vote for her simply because she is a woman. That is an idiotic way to think IMO. I will vote for the best candidate in my opinion. The one that has the policies and beliefs that align with my own. Anyone who votes for a woman simply because she is a woman is doing a great disservice to this country.

I will not vote for the republicans this year, as I am not happy with either of the candidates. I am scared for what may happen should she and McCain be elected. It will be much of the same for the last 8 years, and that does frighten me.

Her policies and beliefs differ greatly from my own, and that is a personal issue that I take with her. I do realize that she would be only the VP, and therefore not hold all the control, but the fact remains that she could end up in charge, and I would not be happy then.

Just for clarification- I am a registered Republican, so I am not a liberal attacking. I am also from Illinois and very pleased with Obama.

 

QUOTE(eechy @ Aug 30 2008, 11:29 AM) [snapback]954775[/snapback]
That would be the same as voting for ....................... Obama because he's black.


Oh, I agree it would be the same. Unfortunately there are millions doing JUST THAT and freely admitting it. I would never vote for someone JUST BECAUSE they are a certain gender or race. I let my morals and beliefs guide my vote.

 

QUOTE(Jennie-OH @ Aug 30 2008, 12:27 PM) [snapback]954849[/snapback]
Oh, I agree it would be the same. Unfortunately there are millions doing JUST THAT and freely admitting it. I would never vote for someone JUST BECAUSE they are a certain gender or race. I let my morals and beliefs guide my vote.

The vast majority of African American are not voting for Obama because he's black. Obama had to win over the black vote. Initially, Hillary Clinton had the highest support among black voters, but Obama went out and made his case to black Americans. In the meantime, Hillary Clinton's campaign floundered miserably, pandering the the "redneck vote," missing this year's key theme--change, and so on.

 

QUOTE(sullivanre @ Aug 30 2008, 12:37 PM) [snapback]954864[/snapback]
The vast majority of African American are not voting for Obama because he's black. Obama had to win over the black vote. Initially, Hillary Clinton had the highest support among black voters, but Obama went out and made his case to black Americans. In the meantime, Hillary Clinton's campaign floundered miserably, pandering the the "redneck vote," missing this year's key theme--change, and so on.


It would be wrong to assume which demographic I was referring to.

 

First, I think it is great that a WOMAN is on the ticket for VP of the USA. WOW...this election year is exciting. With either canidate we will have a first in this country.
BUT...QUOTE
Her policies and beliefs differ greatly from my own, and that is a personal issue that I take with her. I do realize that she would be only the VP, and therefore not hold all the control, but the fact remains that she could end up in charge, and I would not be happy then.

She won't help McCain get my vote.

 

From what I've seen so far is that she is ULTRA conservative. I am conservative to a point, but I also believe in women's rights, etc, which she hasn't shown a ton of. I'm not sure who I will be voting for. I like points that both Obama and McCain offer, so I'm anxious to see how the debates go. I'm also, like pp stated, not one who will be voting for McCain just b/c there is a woman on the ticket...that's dumb, but I'm sure it will happen.

 

There are things I like about Palin, but I'm not a conservative.

You have to give it to Obama, he has mounted an amazing campaign. He beat a Clinton, and vaulted himself from relative obscurity.

Although I probably wouldn't vote for any Republican anyways, what bothers me about McCain is that he really comes off as a war monger. I feel he's only defined himself based on his military service. If he's elected, my kids will have to worry about being drafted and they're only 2 months old.

 

QUOTE(Jennie-OH @ Aug 30 2008, 12:40 PM) [snapback]954867[/snapback]
It would be wrong to assume which demographic I was referring to.


Fair enough, do you think many whites are doing that?

 

QUOTE
I let my morals and beliefs guide my vote.


Me too, and my moral beliefs guide me to voting for Obama. The choice of Palin as VP cements it for me that the Democrats MUST win this election. I do think she did a great job cleaning up the corruption in AK, but she's just way too conservative for my tastes, and this is not someone I want being a heartbeat away from the Presidency.

 

QUOTE
IS A CREATIONIST


Not sure why that is in caps, we aren't all that bad of people you know.

 

QUOTE(Snittens @ Aug 30 2008, 12:22 PM) [snapback]954944[/snapback]
Me too, and my moral beliefs guide me to voting for Obama. The choice of Palin as VP cements it for me that the Democrats MUST win this election. I do think she did a great job cleaning up the corruption in AK, but she's just way too conservative for my tastes, and this is not someone I want being a heartbeat away from the Presidency.



Kelly,
I agree with you 100%

 

QUOTE(eechy @ Aug 30 2008, 11:29 AM) [snapback]954775[/snapback]
I don't want to crash the party on the thread of folks who are happy with the McCain pick, but I just have to know, is there anyone out there who is TERRIFIED by this choice?

She has no foreign policy experience, is a staunch conservative, IS A CREATIONIST (and believes it should be taught in the schools), and despite having a son in active duty who could be sent to Iraq at any moment, she "hasn't really focused much on the war in Iraq". Also she's being dogged by scandals in AK having to do with abuse of power. Nice.

Yes, she's a woman, but she's completely against a woman's right to choose. Does McCain really think that Hillary's 18 million will vote for her just because she's got a vagina? I did read a few people in the other thread who seemed to be leaning that way, but I just hope it won't work on a grand scale. That would be the same as voting for McCain b/c he's a man, or Obama because he's black.

Anyway, I'm just hoping to see a couple people out there who don't agree with this choice. Anyone? Bueller??


Erin, when was the last time I told you I loved you?

A voice of reason ... I almost vomited in my mouth reading the Palin lovefest.

The staunch conservative and the CREATIONIST is a huge issue with me, as is the woman's right to choose. She solidified my vote against McCain. I was on the fence, although leaning towards not voting at all ... but now I have vote for Obama. A lot of the smart ladies on the Corn have taught me that maybe, just maybe, my pocketbook won't feel the pull as much as I think it will ... and if it does, well, I'll hunt them down and they can pay me.


I would love to see a woman in office ... but not one against a woman's right to choose. That seems crazy to me ... what kind of woman (and mother especially) thinks its ever right to force another woman to have a child? I don't get it ... it's not fair and it's not right.

I don't love Obama ... and I don't know too much about Biden ... but I don't love Palin. Too bad ... I'd love to see a woman in the white house (besides as the first lady). Anyone have any interest in writing in for Caba??

 

Erica, I don't mean to put you on the spot. I do know that in the corn there have been many discussions on basing your vote on one issue, and those of us that are pro-life sometimes get questioned regarding basing our decision on that. Are you not doing the same with Palin? Since she is pro-life, you can't vote for her? I honestly do not know if you have ever questioned voting on a single issue, so I might be way off base here.

 

QUOTE(Cristina @ Aug 30 2008, 01:45 PM) [snapback]954967[/snapback]
Erica, I don't mean to put you on the spot. I do know that in the corn there have been many discussions on basing your vote on one issue, and those of us that are pro-life sometimes get questioned regarding basing our decision on that. Are you not doing the same with Palin? Since she is pro-life, you can't vote for her? I honestly do not know if you have ever questioned voting on a single issue, so I might be way off base here.


It's not one issue though ... its the pro-choice for sure ... but I that wouldn't have stopped me necessarily for voting for McCain because I honestly don't think that anyone in office is going to get Roe v Wade overturned ... it's also her conservative christian stance and my fear that her beliefs would seep into her decision making (how can it not?) ... I don't know how anyone that steeped in their religion can keep a true separation ... It's also gay rights ... it's very hard for me, because fiscally I WANT to vote republican ... but socially and morally I just feel like they are polar opposites for how I feel about so many issues ... it's why I really didn't want to vote ...

I think what scares me most is the thought of the Republicans putting more conservatives in the supreme court ... so although I might not be happy with everything Obama does ... I would like to see more liberals on the supreme court ... so if nothing besides that happens in the next 4 or 8 years, that will be enough for me.

I'm a crabby atheist ... and I want to ensure that religious politicians do not make decisions in life that will affect my children. I am not gay, not planning on having an abortion, etc ... so those things are outside my realm of reality . .. but I have no idea if my children will be gay. I want them to have the same rights as every other human being on this planet ... not just the heterosexuals. I've said it before, and I'll say it again ... I want to dance with my son as his wedding ... I don't care if he's marrying a man or a woman. I hope beyond hope that Hailey never makes any decisions that end up with her having an unwanted pregnancy, but I want her to have all options ... and let her make her own decision.

I voted Bush in 2000. I didn't vote in 2004. I'm ready for my own change. So let's see if voting Democatic makes any difference.

 

It's funny to read all of this, because what I like about Obama and Palin is actually the same thing- that they are more than simply career politicians. In terms of politics, neither is particularly POLITICALLY experienced (let's not forget that Obama has spent most of his Senate term campaigning for Presidency), but both seem to be experienced in terms of LIFE. Neither is a Biden or a McCain in terms of experience, but Obama and Palin both strike me as a bit more real because of that "lack of experience."

Altogether, though, I am thinking this year, just like I've thought other years...is this really the best the US can do? We're left with these choices- Obama/Biden and McCain/Palin - and I'm not really thrilled with either of them...

SIGH.

 

Thanks for answering me Erica! I understand what you are saying. Thanks for clarifying.

 

QUOTE(Cristina @ Aug 30 2008, 12:27 PM) [snapback]954949[/snapback]
Not sure why that is in caps, we aren't all that bad of people you know.



AND we may even be RIGHT?? LOL


Brandy

 

Something I find ironic is that McCain was "getting on" Obama's age just as Obama was "getting on" McCain's ages. And yet....McCain chooses someone YOUNGER than Obama! Hmmm...

 

I was not excited to vote in this election prior to either cantidate choosing his running mate but when Obama chose Biden I had a sick feeling run through my body and when he made his choice I knew what mine had to be and that was against them. Then when McCain chose Palin I thought how refreshing and NO not because she is a woman but because of what she stands for and how she thinks. I am pro life and that does have a big pull on my vote. I agree a woman has a right to choose (even as a Mother) but that choice needs to be made before a life is created and noone should have the right to choose to take the life of another. Along the same line I don't believe that because Palin is pro life she will totally get rid the ability for a woman to have an abortion but I do hope that one day it will not be so easy to take that life

 

QUOTE(Snittens @ Aug 30 2008, 12:22 PM) [snapback]954944[/snapback]
Me too, and my moral beliefs guide me to voting for Obama. The choice of Palin as VP cements it for me that the Democrats MUST win this election. I do think she did a great job cleaning up the corruption in AK, but she's just way too conservative for my tastes, and this is not someone I want being a heartbeat away from the Presidency.


I'm with Kelly too.

 

QUOTE(twindependent @ Aug 30 2008, 02:14 PM) [snapback]954993[/snapback]
It's funny to read all of this, because what I like about Obama and Palin is actually the same thing- that they are more than simply career politicians. In terms of politics, neither is particularly POLITICALLY experienced (let's not forget that Obama has spent most of his Senate term campaigning for Presidency), but both seem to be experienced in terms of LIFE. Neither is a Biden or a McCain in terms of experience, but Obama and Palin both strike me as a bit more real because of that "lack of experience."


The choice of Palin has removed any doubt that I will vote for Obama. He wasn't my first or second choice among the Democrats but I do agree with the above quote - I think a "newcomer" might be just what we need to shake up Washington.

What scares me the most about Republicans winning the White House is the Supreme Court nominations. I shudder to think of the effect on this country 10, 20 years from now if Palin is the one making those appointments As far as her personal belief in creationism, I don't really care - but wanting our schools to teach it - unbelievable!!


QUOTE(twindependent @ Aug 30 2008, 02:14 PM) [snapback]954993[/snapback]
Altogether, though, I am thinking this year, just like I've thought other years...is this really the best the US can do? We're left with these choices- Obama/Biden and McCain/Palin - and I'm not really thrilled with either of them...

SIGH.

I think our best possibles in both parties are just not willing to run and put their families through the ordeal this process has become. That, and the need to be able to raise huge amounts of money.

 

I just have to comment on all the CREATIONIST stuff. Seriously, is this a consideration in an election? I mean is it so awful that students learn that some believe in creationism (and here's what that looks like) and some believe in evolution (and here's what that looks like) and some believe that they go hand-in-hand (and here's what that looks like)? I mean, it's done - we're here. Sort of a non-issue at this point. My son (a freshman in HS) learns about evolution from school and we have awesome discussions about it at home. Don't really care what the President believes as it's kind-of a done deal. There are so many other important issues at stake. Why oh why are some so afraid of their children learning about what Creationists believe and some so worried about what Evolutionists believe? What is the major fear on either side? It's all education and to not learn about both is ignorance. IMO it's a much more free society who knows of all beliefs and has the option to learn more about whichever rings true for them and find their own belief. I fear a President who would block the learning of either "side". Are we not still free to learn and believe about whatever science or faith that have been seen as truth to a majority in our country and decide for ourselves which we will believe? I certainly hope we are more concerned about war, economics, community service, health care and our future than we are about blocking certain views from being taught. I'd hate for any belief in how we arrived to be censored be it Evolutionist, Creationist or those who believe a Creator created Evolution. To me, those are decisions to be made when signing up for college courses - not when voting for a leader of our country.

 

QUOTE(girls! @ Aug 30 2008, 10:28 PM) [snapback]955491[/snapback]
Why oh why are some so afraid of their children learning about what Creationists believe and some so worried about what Evolutionists believe? What is the major fear on either side? It's all education and to not learn about both is ignorance. IMO it's a much more free society who knows of all beliefs and has the option to learn more about whichever rings true for them and fin their own belief. I fear a President who would block the learning of either "side". Are we not still free to learn and believe about whatever science or faith that have been seen as truth to a majority in our country and decide for ourselves which we will believe? I certainly hope we are more concerned about war, economics, community service, health care and our future than we are about blocking certain views from being taught. I'd hate for any belief in how we arrived to be censored be it Evolutionist, Creationist or those who believe a Creator created Evolution. To me, those are decisions to be made when signing up for college courses - not when voting for a leader of our country.


First off, I haven't done much research on Palin, so I'm not sure what her stance is on supporting morality based laws, or faith based education.

For me, my concerns about the teaching of Creationism would depend heavily upon the context in which it is taught. If it's taught in a world religions class and presented as "this is what some people believe," then I'm okay with that. We all need a broader education about cultures. If Creationism steps one niggling little toe into a science classroom, I will have a HUGE problem. Creationism is religion, not science.

Creationism + World Religion Class = cool
Creationism + Science Class = I will breath fire on someone to make it stop.

What does a candidate's belief in creationism have to do with his or her ability to run a country? If Palin, or any other candidate, wants to believe in creationism in their own private sphere of existence that's spiffy. Weird, and incomprehensible to me, but that's their cup of tea. What I'm concerned about is how far a candidate is willing to stretch their authority in order to violate separation of church and state so as to further their own religious cause.

 

QUOTE(Orestia @ Aug 30 2008, 10:53 PM) [snapback]955520[/snapback]
First off, I haven't done much research on Palin, so I'm not sure what her stance is on supporting morality based laws, or faith based education.

For me, my concerns about the teaching of Creationism would depend heavily upon the context in which it is taught. If it's taught in a world religions class and presented as "this is what some people believe," then I'm okay with that. We all need a broader education about cultures. If Creationism steps one niggling little toe into a science classroom, I will have a HUGE problem. Creationism is religion, not science.

Creationism + World Religion Class = cool
Creationism + Science Class = I will breath fire on someone to make it stop.

What does a candidate's belief in creationism have to do with his or her ability to run a country? If Palin, or any other candidate, wants to believe in creationism in their own private sphere of existence that's spiffy. Weird, and incomprehensible to me, but that's their cup of tea. What I'm concerned about is how far a candidate is willing to stretch their authority in order to violate separation of church and state so as to further their own religious cause.



We agree then because I do believe in the separation of church and state. Can't imagine a Government that would tell me what my "church" should or should not be.

My comments were based on previous comments in this thread about how her being a Creationist is a big consideration in her potential to be a good candidate. I'm not sure she is a good choice, but her believing in creationism doesn't play into it for me as I don't see it possible for any candidate to change my views on the matter. We can't exactly vote on whether creationism is right or wrong. It's a belief.

 

For me, the decision to choose Palin shows that McCain is willing to pander to ultra-conservatives and the religious right. As I'm much more of a moderate, I don't want the ultra-conservative agenda being on the forefront for the next 4 years. We've had too much of that for the last 8, in my opinion.

 

I don't think voting for her because she is a women is a good idea, but she does have some good ideas so far in Alaska. I know that is different from the USA, but she really stands up for things that are right. I really like that about her. I hope that she can change things for people with disabilities because she has a child with downs. I think that she would do a great job. I haven't read much about Obama's running mate because I don't agree with him on most things. I wish either side would talk about fixing the insurance companies. I really like the idea Romney had on that. I hope that either one can fix the economey(sp) because it is getting really bad. It makes me nervous for my children with regards to what is house prices going to look like when they are old enough to have families of there own. Someone need to do something about the gas prices as well.

Erin

 

Wow - I wish I'd been around more today to debate a bit! I'm certainly reassured to know that I'm not the only one out there feeling the way I do. I did want to address a couple points -

ThreeLittleSnowflakes - I completely agree that the biggest fear is who will be appointed to the Supreme Court. The more liberal justices are getting up there in age, and it could get very conservative in the next few years if McCain is elected. I feel like there should be some checks and balances against that to ensure that the court is at least somewhat fair, but since there's not, voting Obama is a must. I should mention that I am a little bit in loooove with him...and Michelle...and the girls for that matter. Ever since he spoke at the 2004 convention I've been watching and hoping for him to do something big. I never imagined it would be so soon, and in fact I voted for Hillary in the primary. I thought he was getting things handed to him a little; but now I think he's earned his spot and I am super excited for he and Joe to get some stuff done.

girls! I am trying to think of a way to phrase this without being a total jerk, but I'm not sure if I'll succeed. But I do want to answer your question about why creationism is such a divisive issue for some. I guess the reason that people get worried about a creationist holding such a prominent position and for it to be taught in school is that for those who are not creationists, it's a matter of science. I don't think "I believe in evolution," or that I am an "evolutionist". I just know science. To me teaching creationism is the same as teaching that 2+2 = 5. Perhaps we could expose kids to the concept in a literature class on the Bible. It seems to be more appropriate there, IMO. Also, I think that someone who advocates for creationism in science class is allowing one's religious beliefs to seep into the schools. Where would she draw the line?

I'm so looking forward to the next couple of months. The debates will be very telling I think.

Orestia - you must have posted while I was typing. Couldn't have said it better (and I didn't!). Especially the fire-breathing LOL!

 

QUOTE(eechy @ Aug 30 2008, 11:45 PM) [snapback]955602[/snapback]
girls! I am trying to think of a way to phrase this without being a total jerk, but I'm not sure if I'll succeed. But I do want to answer your question about why creationism is such a divisive issue for some. I guess the reason that people get worried about a creationist holding such a prominent position and for it to be taught in school is that for those who are not creationists, it's a matter of science. I don't think "I believe in evolution," or that I am an "evolutionist". I just know science. To me teaching creationism is the same as teaching that 2+2 = 5. Perhaps we could expose kids to the concept in a literature class on the Bible. It seems to be more appropriate there, IMO. Also, I think that someone who advocates for creationism in science class is allowing one's religious beliefs to seep into the schools. Where would she draw the line?

I'm so looking forward to the next couple of months. The debates will be very telling I think.



You don't sound like a "total jerk" at all. I get your point...I just don't see this as a major sticking point in this election. Truly, with all the issues this country is facing, class curriculum seems like such a low item on the list. I just don't get the hoopla over her belief on how we got here. It seems like a debate for a forum on education in American classrooms - not the presidential election. When in history has a VP dictated what gets taught in our classrooms? Obama is a Christian and attended a church for 20 years that believes in and teaches creationism. It's not an issue that he believes in it. Why is it an issue that she does? What difference can they make on that issue? Are either of them going to mandate that classrooms teach one way or another and dictate whether it fall under the Science 101 or Religious Studies header? I think it's quite low on the list of their platform issues. Maybe I'm missing something...it just strikes me as funny that this is such a major sticking point with some.

 

Seriously, terrified? That's kind of a funny word. I think Obama could be one of the worst Presidents ever but I wouldn't claim to be terrified of him and his chances of winning. Maybe terrified is a stronger word to me than to you?

Presidents have power but they are not dictators and can't really make decisions on their own. How much does a President who is dealing with a Congress of the opposite party really do? Even Presidents with Congresses of their own party spend most of the time arguing with them and trying to make deals. Bush is certainly not a great President but he didn't single-handedly cause all the problems we have today. It's been a while in the making. I also can't claim that Clinton's inactions were the entire reason we ended up with 9/11 eight months after he left office. The most important decisions a President seems to make are the ones to do nothing in certain situations and the naming of Supreme Court justices. There are historic moments in the Presidency when a President makes a stand (Lincoln in the Civil War, Reagan against the USSR, Kennedy for the space program, etc.) and changes the course of history but Presidents are not the end all and be all of our country. Our system just isn't set up like that and that was done on purpose.

QUOTE(caba @ Aug 30 2008, 05:41 PM) [snapback]954964[/snapback]
That seems crazy to me ... what kind of woman (and mother especially) thinks its ever right to force another woman to have a child? I don't get it ... it's not fair and it's not right.


LOL, that's exactly the opposite of what I think. How can a mother ever think it's okay to kill a baby. Carrying a child takes 9 months but killing a child is forever.

As for being "dogged" by allegations of misconduct, I wouldn't call one investigation by the Legislature due to a firing "dogged". It seems to me that she was the one that worked very hard to clean up the misconduct in her state and, miraculously, didn't get thrown into the gutter by her party for it. Obviously, Alaskans must like her if they're willing to elect a small town mayor over an incumbent. I love that she is a "real" person.

With creationism, weren't a lot of you taught creation "myths" from native cultures in some of your classes through the years. It was multicultural. Interestingly, although I know the creation myths of the Vikings, the Aztecs, the Hopis and more, the Christian story of creation was never taught. Not even as part of a literature or history class. I guess because there's actually still a very large number of people in the world that believe that the Christian story of creation is true that it's not okay to teach it. I honestly don't know what it has to do with being a good candidate because it's not like the VP (or even Pres) can make policy about what is taught in the schools but it does show that she is a solid Christian and that scares people For some, it's okay to profess faith as a politician as long as you don't really practice it. Sure, go to church on Sunday and that makes you a good person but you better not stand up for those beliefs in public. Then you are a radical and crossing the line of separation of church and state as defined by Thomas Jefferson.

On an entirely different note, I read a book by Tip O'Neill a few years ago about his time in Congress. For those that don't know, Tip O'Neill is a Democrat and, interestingly, he characterizes Jimmy Carter as one of the worst Presidents of all time. The reason: Jimmy Carter couldn't get anything done because he came into Washington with all these plans about what "he" was going to do and how "he" was going to change things and he wouldn't work with the lawmakers. Carter was definitely a Washington outsider who went in with the "change" theme but with no respect for how the system works. I think Palin would run into some of the same problems "if" she ever became President and Obama would as well and he's a lot closer to the Presidency than she is.

What I'm wondering is if Hillary is destined to become the next Supreme Court justice if Obama wins....

 

where is that little Hi5 graemlin that we used to have.

If I could find it I would give it to yoy Ali. :clapping: VERY well said/written.

 

QUOTE(Ali M @ Aug 31 2008, 01:16 AM) [snapback]955618[/snapback]
Seriously, terrified? That's kind of a funny word. I think Obama could be one of the worst Presidents ever but I wouldn't claim to be terrified of him and his chances of winning. Maybe terrified is a stronger word to me than to you?

Presidents have power but they are not dictators and can't really make decisions on their own. How much does a President who is dealing with a Congress of the opposite party really do? Even Presidents with Congresses of their own party spend most of the time arguing with them and trying to make deals. Bush is certainly not a great President but he didn't single-handedly cause all the problems we have today. It's been a while in the making. I also can't claim that Clinton's inactions were the entire reason we ended up with 9/11 eight months after he left office. The most important decisions a President seems to make are the ones to do nothing in certain situations and the naming of Supreme Court justices. There are historic moments in the Presidency when a President makes a stand (Lincoln in the Civil War, Reagan against the USSR, Kennedy for the space program, etc.) and changes the course of history but Presidents are not the end all and be all of our country. Our system just isn't set up like that and that was done on purpose.
LOL, that's exactly the opposite of what I think. How can a mother ever think it's okay to kill a baby. Carrying a child takes 9 months but killing a child is forever.

As for being "dogged" by allegations of misconduct, I wouldn't call one investigation by the Legislature due to a firing "dogged". It seems to me that she was the one that worked very hard to clean up the misconduct in her state and, miraculously, didn't get thrown into the gutter by her party for it. Obviously, Alaskans must like her if they're willing to elect a small town mayor over an incumbent. I love that she is a "real" person.

With creationism, weren't a lot of you taught creation "myths" from native cultures in some of your classes through the years. It was multicultural. Interestingly, although I know the creation myths of the Vikings, the Aztecs, the Hopis and more, the Christian story of creation was never taught. Not even as part of a literature or history class. I guess because there's actually still a very large number of people in the world that believe that the Christian story of creation is true that it's not okay to teach it. I honestly don't know what it has to do with being a good candidate because it's not like the VP (or even Pres) can make policy about what is taught in the schools but it does show that she is a solid Christian and that scares people For some, it's okay to profess faith as a politician as long as you don't really practice it. Sure, go to church on Sunday and that makes you a good person but you better not stand up for those beliefs in public. Then you are a radical and crossing the line of separation of church and state as defined by Thomas Jefferson.

On an entirely different note, I read a book by Tip O'Neill a few years ago about his time in Congress. For those that don't know, Tip O'Neill is a Democrat and, interestingly, he characterizes Jimmy Carter as one of the worst Presidents of all time. The reason: Jimmy Carter couldn't get anything done because he came into Washington with all these plans about what "he" was going to do and how "he" was going to change things and he wouldn't work with the lawmakers. Carter was definitely a Washington outsider who went in with the "change" theme but with no respect for how the system works. I think Palin would run into some of the same problems "if" she ever became President and Obama would as well and he's a lot closer to the Presidency than she is.

What I'm wondering is if Hillary is destined to become the next Supreme Court justice if Obama wins....


The thing is, those myths were taught in literature class. Palin and those who believe like her, would like it taught in Science class--HUGE difference.

From a non-Christian perspective it is big. I DON'T want Christian ideas taught in school, unless they are part of a religion class or a literature class. I don't expect my kids to learn about Judaism in public school, it is my responsibility as a parent to make sure they get that education in the appropriate setting. In the same vein, I don't want them to be taught Christian ideas as fact.

For example, every year, I go into my boys' classes and do a presentation on Chanukkah. I struggle to find a good book, because I try to keep belief out of it, and teach as the story exists--if that makes sense. It isn't my place to tell kids how to believe, or that they should believe like I do, but I do want them to learn of the Miracle of the holiday and why it is celebrated.

Palin has made public statements that she wants to have Creationism taught in Public Schools. I don't think Obama has ever said anything about that. Obama is who he is, but except for when others put his religion out for attack, he has been quiet about it--as it should be. Religion should help define who you are, but doesn't need to be put out for display. Bill Clinton did the same. I think I was totally surprised a long time ago when someone listed the religions of the presidents, and Clinton was listed as a Born Again Christian. I think that was the first I had ever heard of it, and he was in office for 8 years, but never used his position to further his religion.

 

Great post Sharon, you are a shining example of people who do not force their beliefs on others.

 

This is exactly what it boils down to:

QUOTE(sharongl @ Aug 31 2008, 07:29 AM) [snapback]955718[/snapback]
From a non-Christian perspective it is big. I DON'T want Christian ideas taught in school, unless they are part of a religion class or a literature class. I don't expect my kids to learn about Judaism in public school, it is my responsibility as a parent to make sure they get that education in the appropriate setting. In the same vein, I don't want them to be taught Christian ideas as fact.


And what about children being raised as Muslims, Buddists, Wiccans... are we going to have our public schools teach all religions? or just Christianity? I think some Christians forget their are other religions in the World. What would you say to the parents who are raising their children in a religion other than Christianity when the kids come home and tell the parents what they learned that day?

Even worse, IMO, than wanting to teach (Christian based) Creationism in a public school full of children from a variety of religious and non-religious backgrounds is what that says about the choices she is likely to make for Supreme Court nominations. (yes, I'm back to that - I think this is a very important consideration that isn't getting much attention) McCain's VP has a very high chance of being President someday. Either from taking over at some point in his term or with her own term. If McCain is elected and he does stick to his one term promise, won't his VP be the most likely Republican candidate four years from now? I think it is an indicator of a lot of other choices she would make. An elected official is supposed to represent all constituents not impose their personal beliefs.

 

QUOTE(ThreeLittleSnowflakes @ Aug 31 2008, 07:53 AM) [snapback]955740[/snapback]
This is exactly what it boils down to:
And what about children being raised as Muslims, Buddists, Wiccans... are we going to have our public schools teach all religions? or just Christianity? I think some Christians forget their are other religions in the World. What would you say to the parents who are raising their children in a religion other than Christianity when the kids come home and tell the parents what they learned that day?

Even worse, IMO, than wanting to teach (Christian based) Creationism in a public school full of children from a variety of religious and non-religious backgrounds is what that says about the choices she is likely to make for Supreme Court nominations. (yes, I'm back to that - I think this is a very important consideration that isn't getting much attention) McCain's VP has a very high chance of being President someday. Either from taking over at some point in his term or with her own term. If McCain is elected and he does stick to his one term promise, won't his VP be the most likely Republican candidate four years from now? I think it is an indicator of a lot of other choices she would make. An elected official is supposed to represent all constituents not impose their personal beliefs.


I was going to respond, but I couldn't have said it better. I believe many Christians forget that there creation story isn't the end all be all in religion. There ARE other religions who believe differently ... should we teach them all, in public schools, in science class????

For me its a slippery slope, vote someone in who believes in such ridiculousness (the teaching of it in schools, not the actual Creationism) and who knows what comes next? Prayer before class? Yeah, that's appropriate. What else? It may not seem like a big deal to those who believe in it, but to some of us it's a HUGE deal.