I know there's a whole area on this board dedicated to sleep...

Discussion in 'The First Year' started by CHJH, Dec 4, 2007.

  1. CHJH

    CHJH Well-Known Member

    I haven't had a decent night's sleep in months. I am a walking zombie. I don't even trust myself to drive a car many days. My James was a good sleeper until about 5 months old. Around that time he started needing more support at night - paci replacements, bum patting, cheek strokes, extra time to go down to bed, etc. I soothed him whenever he needed it, assuming that since he was actually a good sleeper by nature (ha ha), he was probably just teething or going through some kind of developmental transition. I continued with a good daytime routine, consistent naps, avoiding overtiredness, a soothing bedtime ritual, etc. and hoped for the best. Fast forward to 9 months old. James is a TERRIBLE sleeper. He wakes throughout the evening for short periods (2 to 30 minutes) and then usually twice at night for long periods (up to 3 hours at a time). He stops crying as soon as I pick him up, but then he lays in my arms awake, playing with my hair, scratching my face...and cries every time I try to put him down. He wakes super early every morning as well. I've tried bringing him into bed with me, but it often doesn't work - he just wiggles around, chatting and trying to play. James is a very energetic baby all day long and just can't seem to get into a deep sleep at night. I know that his plagio helmet might affect his comfort a little, but his brother sleeps well in his helmet. Anyway, James is sleeping poorly and waking up the whole house, including Evan.

    I think I'm ready to teach him to "self soothe" because the current situation isn't good for anyone's health. Please let me know what has worked for you. Honestly, I don't know if I'll be able to handle it - I'll have to lean on my husband and this board for support. How many nights of crying should I expect?
     
  2. AmyD

    AmyD Well-Known Member

    We originally did CIO at about 5 1/2 months to get them to sleep in the morning (they were waking at 3:30 am). It took 3 nights before they slept through (first night about 2 hours of crying). At 9 months they both had surgery, so we didn’t let them cry during the night, but they would quickly go back to sleep after being soothed. Same with teething – we could go in and give teething tablets, and they’d go right back to sleep.

    At about 13 or 14 months though (I could be wrong on exactly when) they started doing exactly what you've described your son doing - they would cry and when we went in and picked them up they were fine (laughing, poking at us, etc.). As soon as we put them back in the crib, they would scream bloody murder and just sob and sob. I tried waiting and going in after 10 minutes and just rubbing on them without picking them up, but I realized I was making it worse, so I knew I had to let them cry. They did wake each other, but I still wouldn’t go in. Sometimes it would take 45 minutes before they’d fall asleep (it can take even longer for other babies). It was really hard, but my husband reassured me they were fine, and in the morning they were always smiling like nothing had happened. They are such great sleepers now that I’m so glad we stuck with it. Good luck with everything!
     
  3. becky5

    becky5 Guest

    :hug99: I did CIO with all of my boys, my girls slept through on their own. Doing it with Jake and Josh at 6 months was way "easier" than doing it with Justin at 9 months! I think that the longer you wait, the tougher it will be as far as the nights of crying. Much to my surprise Jake only took 2 nights of off and on crying for no more than 20 minutes at a time, to sleep through. He has been a great sleeper ever since! Josh took about a week, and Justin about 10 days.

    The key is CONSISTENCY. I did not go in at all, unless it was to make sure that there was not a limb stuck in the crib slats. I found going in made the crying worse and tended to last longer. You really have to make up your mind that this is the right thing, and stick to it for it to work. It is hard hearing them cry, but it is SO worth it when you have a baby that no longer wakes at night.

    One more thing...all of my boys took a paci, and I put about 10 of them in the crib with them, so that wherever they rolled, they would find one!

    Good luck, I hope you get some sleep soon. :hug99:
     
  4. Irish38

    Irish38 Well-Known Member

    Ditto to the above. Especially the consistency. I thought the process would take at least a week but my guys surprisingly got thru it in just a few nights and have been sleeping through the night for months now. It probably won't be as bad as you anticipate.
     
  5. ahmerl

    ahmerl Well-Known Member

    No advice here, but, I hope that you get some sleep sometime soon! It sounds like a little (or a lot) of CIO might be your only choice in this situation. Right now it seems he is relying on you too much and doing CIO might be your way of doing him the favor of learning how to soothe himself back to sleep. Sleeping is tough work, especially for us adults with soooo much on our minds, you may as well help him learn good sleep habits now. He is lucky to have such a great mommy!

    Amy
     
  6. fuchsiagroan

    fuchsiagroan Well-Known Member

    No advice, I just want to wish you lots of luck - and hopefully some good SLEEP soon! :lazy:
     
  7. annieuetz

    annieuetz Well-Known Member

    I would recommend the book...
    The Baby Whisperer Solves All Your Problems: Sleeping, Feeding, and Behavior--Beyond the Basics from Infancy Through Toddlerhood by Tracy Hogg and Melinda Blau

    I started at about 8 months with the girls to try to get them to sleep through the night. I started with bringing a twin mattress into their room and slept in their room for about a week. Every time they woke up, I talked them through going back to sleep but didn't pick them up. They were sleeping through the night after a week. I then worked on getting them to go to sleep on their own. The pick up/put down method was our savior. We tried cio but they played off each other taking turns so they could rest in between. After a couple of hours we ended up doing pick up/put down and they were asleep in 20 minutes. It took two nights to get them to go to sleep on their own. We now just set them in their cribs with a book. If they want to lay down they can but if they want to look through their book they can. We do the same thing at nap time. They are now 22 months old and it is the best thing I have done for them. I learned it all from the above book plus it taught me how to get rid of their bottles through the night and then all together.
     
  8. seamusnicholas

    seamusnicholas Well-Known Member

    QUOTE(AmyD @ Dec 5 2007, 01:28 AM) [snapback]521312[/snapback]
    We originally did CIO at about 5 1/2 months to get them to sleep in the morning (they were waking at 3:30 am). It took 3 nights before they slept through (first night about 2 hours of crying). At 9 months they both had surgery, so we didn’t let them cry during the night, but they would quickly go back to sleep after being soothed. Same with teething – we could go in and give teething tablets, and they’d go right back to sleep.

    At about 13 or 14 months though (I could be wrong on exactly when) they started doing exactly what you've described your son doing - they would cry and when we went in and picked them up they were fine (laughing, poking at us, etc.). As soon as we put them back in the crib, they would scream bloody murder and just sob and sob. I tried waiting and going in after 10 minutes and just rubbing on them without picking them up, but I realized I was making it worse, so I knew I had to let them cry. They did wake each other, but I still wouldn’t go in. Sometimes it would take 45 minutes before they’d fall asleep (it can take even longer for other babies). It was really hard, but my husband reassured me they were fine, and in the morning they were always smiling like nothing had happened. They are such great sleepers now that I’m so glad we stuck with it. Good luck with everything!


    This is pretty much my story..Did CIO at 5 1/2 months after I couldnt see straight anymore. After 2-3 nights, they slept through. Then around 12-13 months, they wouold wake and cry again and I would go in and give teething tablets or to see what was wrong. If I picked them up, they stopped but as soon as I put them back, they cried hard again. That was my sign that I had to go back to CIO.
     
  9. ceb023

    ceb023 Well-Known Member

    I am so sorry you're going through this... it sounds like James is loving mommy's attention at night! My boys started sleeping through the night at 2 months and then stopped at 4.5 months. I knew we were going to need to do CIO but I kept coming up with excuses to put it off (they were teething, they had reflux, they were cold...). I bought and read five different baby-sleep books and ended up getting so confused about what exactly I was supposed to do. Some books say put them to bed early, some say put them to bed late, some say don't go in, some say go in... the only consensus I found was that babies need to learn to self sooth and eventually go to sleep on their own. I finally realized that my boys needed to learn that night time was only for sleeping - nothing else. They were 6 months old when we decided to stop going in and comforting/soothing/shushing/patting/rocking. I knew that they would have to be able to wake up during the night and fuss or cry and go back to sleep without me helping at all. I was expecting the worst (night after night of screaming and crying for hours). It actually took one night for Ben and two nights for Jake. And they really only cried off and on for 10-15 minutes each night. They would sleep for a few hours, then wake up and cry, then sleep for a few hours... it really was nothing like the nightmare I expected it to be. They are sleeping like champs now (7pm - 7am) and I am so glad that we finally figured out what was best for them. Good luck Catherine... you and your family deserve to sleep... please let us know how it goes!

    - Carrie
     
  10. CHJH

    CHJH Well-Known Member

    Thanks so much for all of that support. I was worried people would think I was a monster for even considering letting James cry. I'm not a monster at all - we just need sleep at our house, for James' sake, for Evan's sake, for my husband's sake, for MY sake! We went to the doctor today and I explained the whole situation to her. She said that at 9 months, and based on everything we talked about, it's time to let James learn that night is for sleeping and that it's possible and wonderful to get a full night's sleep. Phew! So tomorrow night we are going to start. My husband and I are going to sit down and write out a plan and we're going to stick to it. I am a total wimp so I think Evan and I are going to sleep in the basement and let my wonderful husband deal with all of the crying upstairs (not sure how much crying there will be, but I have a feeling it will be too much for me). I am hoping that we can get through to James within a few nights. He is a happy, healthy and very smart little baby who learns all sorts of things very quickly (crawling, pulling up, etc.) so I'm hoping he'll learn this important skill (sleep!) quickly too...
     
  11. excitedk

    excitedk Well-Known Member

    I did CIO at 10.5 months, it worked in 3 nights, no lying, no exaggerating and before this mine were up every 1-3hrs all night, every night!!! There was ALOT of crying on night 1, less on night 2 and some more on night 3, then shhhhhhhhh....nothing since!!!!
    We did extinction, so no plan involved, you put them to bed and NO going in until morning.

    Hope you are all sleeping good soon :)
     
  12. Boni

    Boni Well-Known Member

    My Victoria was the exact same as your James and I just posted my "victory" over her sleeplessness (is there such a word). I felt the same and CIO did not work for me and it only manage to wake up eveyone else as well. It took me four days to get her to self-sooth, i gave her a blanket to hold whilst i kept her in my arms and as she fell asleep i would lie her down. She now holds on to her little blankie and goes to sleep all on her own. Athena has been doing that from the word go and has slept through since 8 weeks. I have slept 8 hours a night for the last two nights and feel great, (although it feels like i am years behind on my sleep schedule, LOL) and best of all, my daughter did not cry once during this time. But I also agree with the PP, CONSISTANCY is the key word and what ever you do, keep to the same routine till James sleeps through.
     
  13. CHJH

    CHJH Well-Known Member

    Here's an update from sleep training boot camp in Toronto:

    So last night we put James to bed at 6:50 p.m. It was our first night of sleep training. He fell asleep easily but woke up 45 minutes later. We let him cry, without going in even for a second. I didn't think it was fair to let him cry and then go in and give him false hope that I was going to be there all night long to soothe him back to sleep. I also feel like it's unkind to let him cry and then go in anyway, like I let him cry for nothing. This is what I had to keep telling myself while he cried for about an hour. It was torture for me. I tried to keep busy by making some sweet potato baby food, washing and folding Evan and James' clothes, and giving the babies' highchairs a good clean (anything for the babies so I knew I was a good mom even if James was crying upstairs!). We had Evan sleeping in the pack and play in my room, since he's a good sleeper we thought it best to separate them until James is sleeping. We didn't hear anything from James and soon it was 11:30 and time for my husband and I to go to bed. I knew that I would probably not be strong enough to withstand James' crying in the middle of the night, so my kind, lovely husband suggested I go sleep in the basement (out of hearing range) and he would deal with the protest crying that was going to happen at night. He's a sound sleeper and doesn't hear the little sounds - just real cries (I hear everything). This morning I heard Mike and the boys upstairs so I ran up to see how the night had gone. Well, for the first time in 5 months James didn't wake up in the night (other than the hour of crying in the evening I mentioned earlier). Usually he's up 4-5 times during the evening, then again around 11:30 for up to an hour, then again between 3 and 4 for two hours. He slept until 5:30 this morning when he started crying. Well, my husband and I agreed that we would not go into his room until 6:00 because early waking is another one of James' bad habits. So Mike stayed out until 6:00 and then went in. He was greeted with a huge smile, giggles, and a big hug around the neck. James has been SOOOOO happy all morning. I think this is the first long stretch of good-quality sleep he's had since he was about 5 months old.

    We'll see how things go tonight. Whenever I'm in doubt I read Healthy Sleep Habits Happy Child and it gives me confidence. I never thought I'd let my baby cry, but James needs to sleep to give him good quality of life. And I need to sleep because I've been so tired for months that I don't even trust myself to get behind the wheel of a car!
     
  14. MichelleL

    MichelleL Well-Known Member

    I did CIO with Emma at 4.5 months. It took TEN nights with nights 4 and 5 being the absolute worst. I was ready to give up on night 5 but decided to go just one more night and it improved gradually from that point on. By night ten she was sleeping through.

    I won't lie, it was HARD, but in retrospect the best thing I have done. They started sleeping 10.5-11 hours and eventually worked up to 11-12 hours per night.
     
  15. excitedk

    excitedk Well-Known Member

    Sounds like things are improving :D :clapping: Stay strong for the next few nights and I bet things will be better from then on!!
     
  16. excitedk

    excitedk Well-Known Member

    How are things going?
     
  17. mrsfussypants

    mrsfussypants Well-Known Member

    It sounds like James got the memo!! That is such good news. I'm so glad it's working out.

    Reyna
     
  18. CHJH

    CHJH Well-Known Member

    I am reluctant to say he's "cured" because I know it's still early days and we haven't tried him in his helmet or with his brother in the room. But so far...

    Night One

    -Bed at 7, no tears
    -Woke at 7:35, cried hysterically for 46 minutes
    -Woke at 8:35, cried for 7 minutes
    -Woke at 5:30, cried until my DH got him at 6:00 (but didn't cry hard, just kind of calling us)

    Night Two

    -Bed at 7, no tears
    -Woke at 2:05, cried for at least 15 minutes...my husband fell back asleep so he's not sure how long (I've been sleeping in the basement during the process because I'm a wimp!)
    -Woke for the day at 6:05

    Night Three

    -Bed at 7:10, no tears
    -Woke at 6:20!!!!

    Night Four
    -Bed at 7:05
    -Woke at 7:50, cried about 2 minutes
    -Woke at 10:23, cried about 10 seconds
    -Woke for the day at 6:05

    So, I'd say we're having a lot of success compared to our usual routine of up to 7 wakings per night, including 3-hour awake interludes in the middle of the night! Now I just have to figure out when to re-intro the helmet at night and when to put Evan back in the room (Evan has slept 12 hours every single night since we started this - he's usually a good sleeper but he's even better without his brother in the room).
     
  19. momlissa

    momlissa Well-Known Member

    Congrats to you on success. It sounds like things are improving. :)

    Can't say enough about HSHHC - that book is my bible, both with the twins and my DD. When we follow the techniques (my days off), my boys sleep like a dream, cfrom 6:30-6:30. When we don't (days they are in daycare, I'm not able to limit their wakefculness and they come to me overtired) I can tell the difference. They fuss a bit at sleep time and sometimes wake up for a bit in the middle of the night. Consistency is definitely the key.

    It sounds like you are doing all the right things (consistent naps, avoiding overtired state, early bedtime, etc.) so I'd just keep doing what you are doing.
     
  20. CHJH

    CHJH Well-Known Member

    That book has been my bible since the boys were 6 weeks old - I only just got the nerve up to let them cry though. Thanks!
     
  21. excitedk

    excitedk Well-Known Member

    QUOTE(CHJH @ Dec 11 2007, 08:14 AM) [snapback]529123[/snapback]
    So, I'd say we're having a lot of success compared to our usual routine of up to 7 wakings per night, including 3-hour awake interludes in the middle of the night! Now I just have to figure out when to re-intro the helmet at night and when to put Evan back in the room (Evan has slept 12 hours every single night since we started this - he's usually a good sleeper but he's even better without his brother in the room).



    I would re-intro the helmut now and now it may involve some crying, but I bet it doesn't make a difference. But I would wait a little while, maybe a month if you can, to put them back in the same room. That way you KNOW they both know how to self soothe and can let them work thru it if one starts crying and makes the other cry. But mine can sleep thru each others cries so well its amazing, lol!
     
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