Identical to Fraternal and now confused

Discussion in 'General' started by Twinfinity, Aug 27, 2012.

  1. Twinfinity

    Twinfinity Member

    Hello Forum, My wife recently gave birth to our twins who from 8 weeks were considered to be identical by 3 separate offices. During the entire pregnancy they've notated that they share one placenta and have a very thing membrane separating them within one chorion. During the latter part of the pregnancy the difference in size was diagnosed as a result of a small happening of TTTS. Twin B had more amniotic fluid in his sac and we were then monitored biweekly because of this. After birth the pediatrician said under his examination by looking at them, that they were definitely fraternal. He also said they had different blood types, one B+ and the other O+ according to the hospital birth records. My don't really have much faith in what they currently have listed for our twins as far as their records show because the each twin had a separate nurse fill out the birth info and one had the wrong birth time which was off by almost and hour, while they are only a minute apart. And the other card didn't have a blood type listed at all. The doctor who delivered did not examine the placenta, so now we have the huge question of are our children fraternal or identical.
     
  2. seamusnicholas

    seamusnicholas Well-Known Member

    Post a picture!
     
  3. ECUBitzy

    ECUBitzy Well-Known Member

    If you're unsure and would like to know, you could always get zygosity testing done. Proactive Genetics (they have a banner ad on the top of the page) is one company.

    But it really doesn't matter, so you don't have to test unless it's just to satisfy your curiosity. As they get bigger you'll note more similarities and differences that will probably give your suspicions. And you could always post a picture here! These ladies are incredibly accurate with predicting zygosity. ;)

    Congrats on your children and welcome to Twinstuff!
     
  4. twinkler

    twinkler Well-Known Member

    My ID girls, we were always told, like yours were identical because of being mono-diamnotic chorionic and delivered within early onset of TTTS but there are certainly differences between them and I've always wondered whether they are really identical but in saying that every time someone here has had a diagnosis of ID and tested because of the difference in looks, I've noticed that the results have always come back as identical not fraternal, so for me, I'm going to assume that they are identical, in medical terms of having the same dna and all the research I did showed only about 25% of ID twins look exactly the same.
     
  5. Utopia122

    Utopia122 Well-Known Member

    You may could get a pathology report on the placentas from the hospital, as it's that department that examines the placentas after delivery.
     
  6. TwinxesMom

    TwinxesMom Well-Known Member

    I have one of the most dissimilar sets of Id twins. Mine had solely Id twin problems. Placenta report confirm they are id. I personally wouldnt pay to have them tested
     
  7. MusicalAli

    MusicalAli Well-Known Member

    Well, the blood typing certainly does raise eyebrows. Post a pic if you can :)
     
  8. Twinfinity

    Twinfinity Member

    Well from my understanding the thin wispy dividing membrane and the fact that they had a small incident of TTTS makes me think that they are identical. It was first identified at our 2 month visit where the OB counted the chorion and individual sacs, then again at our new OB after we switched, and then again after we saw a twin specialist for the TTTS monitoring. The fact that the staff at the hospital delivered has fudged the data on numerous details and that our current pediatrician (without seeing or following any of the data from our pregnancy) told us he could tell they were fraternal "just by looking at them" makes me question their opinions. Is a zygosity test something that the hospital can cover or something her OB can order? We are currently looking for a new pediatrician with more experience with twins and are wondering what the best route would be to determine for sure whether they are identical or fraternal. From the beginning we were 100% sure that they were identical (which we've already been telling our family) and now I feel like I've been mislead and misleading regarding the issue. I'm not sure how to post a picture on here at the moment, but as soon as I figure it out I'll give it a try. Also, thank you so much for responding! Our twins are the 1st in both families (that we know of) and we are sort of in the dark about alot of things. I really appreciate all of the great insight and stories being told here. Thank you so much everyone!
     
  9. Twinfinity

    Twinfinity Member

  10. cheezewhiz24

    cheezewhiz24 Well-Known Member TS Moderator

    I'm saying ID. Clearly your baby boy on the right is a bit bigger, but their facial shapes appear to be the same to me.

    I had the DNA test done on my boys- I was told they were fraternal but then I read that 30% of fraternal twins can be in fact identical. When they were born it was sort of a big question mark in our minds (they are the first set in our family, too) so I had it done. It was about $100 and I just picked a company who does testing by mail.
     
  11. Danibell

    Danibell Well-Known Member TS Moderator

    They do look very ID there to me too. Turn them sideways and take a picture, if their profile is pretty much identical then they are ID. Also, take close up pictures of their eyes, nose, lips and ears. If you can't tell whose eye is whose, or which nose belongs to which baby, then they are ID ;)

    I think the size difference is what's throwing it off a bit.

    :wub: :wub: Super adorable little ones!!
     
  12. cricket1

    cricket1 Well-Known Member

    Personally, I think I would ask that they be blood typed again. Unless of course I guess if one of you is o and one is B, but I would probably still ask about it since you mentioned they did not have it on originally and they had some errors. Cute kiddos though.
     
  13. Twinfinity

    Twinfinity Member

    The thought crossed my mind but I think we've decided to talk to the specialist we saw for the TTTS and see what he thinks. I happen to be B and my wife is blood type O. The errors from the hospital include, Twin A being born at 12:56pm (after Twin B which was at 12:13)/the real time was 12:12pm. Another error saying Twin A's middle name was "A" (probably because it says our last name and then A on the card). A third error of not initially having any blood type listed on Twin B's card. A fourth error of Twin B having a measurement of 18 inches long when I was present at the weigh in and length measurement and the nurse clearly called out 19 inches long. So I believe that even if we had them retested, in the back of my mind I'd think that they'd somehow botched the test. Thank you for the compliment! Our little guys are the source of so much joy for us...and equally the same amount of dirty diapers LOL
     
  14. Twinfinity

    Twinfinity Member

    I'll try to post more pics if I can. The funny thing is Twin A looks almost exactly like our 7 year old son when he was born and Twin B looks like our son when he was about 8 months old. I personally think their identical, but I'd like to be 100% positive before I continue telling everyone that they are.
     
  15. twinkler

    twinkler Well-Known Member

    I agree ID as well.., one of my girls is a little chunkier than the other and there was nearly a pound difference when they were born. We haven't had them tested but plenty of mums on here have. I did look into it at one stage, and it was only about $100.

    They are super adorable by the way.
     
  16. Twinfinity

    Twinfinity Member

    I'm also leaning towards ID at the moment. Twin B is much rosier in color and A is a little paler which seems to be, from what I've read an effect of TTTS. I'm hoping the twin specialist will be so curious that he will try to get the tests done for us, but that's just wishful thinking.
     
  17. Trishandthegirls

    Trishandthegirls Well-Known Member

    The zygosity test is only $100 and you can order it yourself (not covered by insurance so a doctor won't order it for you... since there's no real medical need to know if twins are identical or fraternal). If it was me, I'd ask to get their blood types done. If one is O and the other B, you've got your answer!
     
  18. Meximeli

    Meximeli Well-Known Member

    Call your specialist who saw you fro TTTS and let them know their blood type from the hospital is recorded as different. If they really had TTTS they are identical, if their blood type is different then they aren't and didn't really have TTTS. So if the specialist doesn't order the zygosity test there is a good chance that he will at least order new blood typing (I get the feeling you don't want to shell out the $100--and I don't blame you, you see people posting that it is "only $100" and wish you lived in their world! If it doesn't work out that the doctor will order the tests you could get their blood typed again, that should be a lot cheaper.)
     
    2 people like this.
  19. cheezewhiz24

    cheezewhiz24 Well-Known Member TS Moderator

    Just speaking for myself, our current deductible (for the "cheap" insurance) is $3,500/year. My family actually qualifies for Medicaid, but since my DH works for the state, we aren't able to get it as state employees are exempted from Medicaid. If I've not met that deductible, $100 for the test verses an office appointment + the lab test is going to be close to that. If the babies are the same blood type, I'd still need the DNA test to know whether they are ID or frat. For me, the $100 is a lot of money, but it works out to be very comparable if not a better value. :)
     
    2 people like this.
  20. Meximeli

    Meximeli Well-Known Member

    Except you don't need an office visit to get your blood typed--heck you can buy a blood typing kit on Amazon for $10. http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000FSOCR4/?tag=mytwins02-20 And there must be cheaper ones than that--we typed our own blood in biology class and I'm sure they didn't pay $10 a student! I think pharmacies that give flu shots also do on the spot blood typing.
     
    1 person likes this.
  21. lianyla

    lianyla Well-Known Member

    or an even easier way to figure this out NOW is to look at your earliest ultrasound picture. Is there ONE black "hole" or two? If they are mono di twins, they will be in the SAME black hole. Fraternals (di di) will each have their own separate black "hole."
    Keep us posted!
     
  22. Meximeli

    Meximeli Well-Known Member

    Except that around 25% of identical twins are di/di so that's still not conclusive. But if they are di/di they wouldn't have had TTTS.

    There was an interesting article in the New York Times earlier this year.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/06/health/research/study-finds-twins-can-easily-be-misclassified.html
     
    1 person likes this.
  23. threebecamefive

    threebecamefive Well-Known Member

    I know I'm really late to this thread, but I had to respond to this post. My boys are most definately fraternal. Different lips (one has full lips, the other has thin lips), eye shape and different hair texture to name the most obvious. My first ultrasound was at 6 weeks and I had a second at 9 weeks. Neither one showed two "holes". Both ultrasounds only had one. When I had another one at 15 weeks, with a different doctor, shocked was an understatement. After we learned we were going to have twins, we looked at the 6 and 9 week ultrasounds trying to figure out how both babies were missed, but they were. To this day, to look at those ultrasounds, you'd think I had been carrying one baby.
     
  24. Twinfinity

    Twinfinity Member

    I think at this point I'm going to just mention it to the TTTS specialist and see what he says. I'd like to the there's a reason he's a specialist and that maybe he can shed some light on the subject. Otherwise, sometime in the near future I'm going to switch pediatricians and find an office that has more experience with twins. I was really uncomfortable with the current doctors reasoning of "I can tell just by looking at them" without even looking into the details of the pregnancy. Somewhere down the road DNA testing will probably be done, but for now I'm just really happy that they're healthy and happy.
     
    1 person likes this.
  25. lianyla

    lianyla Well-Known Member

    Correct but if they are in the same "hole" they cannot be fraternal. So that rules out a huge percentage. :)
     
  26. lianyla

    lianyla Well-Known Member

    I get what you're saying but this is just the doctor error in missing a baby. I am saying TWO BABIES in one black hole. If there are 2 babies in ONE hole- they ARE identical. Missing a baby is something entirely different :)
    Thirty percent of identicals are in fact, di di but 70% are not so..

    The earlier an ultrasound is done the easier it is to determine zygosity because there is more room to see the "hole". GL!
     
  27. twinkler

    twinkler Well-Known Member

    I came across this study and had to share because it reminded me of this thread:

    Chimaeric Twins - study on twins who are mono chorionic throughout pregnancy but are in fact dizygositic - rare but it does happen!

    I also read this research article and if you have a 12 week scan handy, it gives you an indication of how to test using that for zygosity, (well at least a percentage)... It is a semi-current (Dec 2011) research.
    Zygosity research

    Placenta Diagram
     
  28. Twinfinity

    Twinfinity Member

    Update : so my wife had her follow up appointment with the doctor who delivered our boys. She confirmed that the both came from 1 placenta which makes me really question the blood types the hospital noted. They are beginning to look even more identical at 2 weeks and I'm now 80% sure that they are identical twins. I also found an early ultrasound printout and I think it looks like "one black hole"
     
  29. lianyla

    lianyla Well-Known Member

    Ta-Da!
     
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